Sick Leave

[JayDudley]

I just read an article about the alleged abuse of sick leave in the Fire Service. Is there any way a Firefighter who uses sick leave when they are not sick tolerated in the Fire Servive. I feel there are instances where it can be..but I'd like to hear your reasons.....

[tree68]

"Mental health days" come to mind.

Given the propensity for the fire service to swap shifts (where allowed), not to mention shift schedules that leave plenty of time to take care of things most people would have to take time off from work to accomplish, I'd view anyone who uses sick leave like vacation time in a pretty dim light.

And I've known people (outside firefighting) who never suffered a major illness yet still had sick days on the books that numbered in the single digits (I retired from federal service with over a year of sick time on the books).

That said - it could be a subjective thing - one person's necessity is another person's abuse. If you've got something that needs to be done but can't pull off a vacation day or swap, maybe a sick day is the only way to accomplish it. If it's happening on a regular basis, though, you need to take a look at what's going on and figure out how to work around it.

Things that "need" to be done don't include a day at the beach, golf course, or hunting, however.

[JayDudley]

Agreed

I agree that one who takes a day of sick leave should be at the beach,golf course or out hunting or fishing. My point is can he/she take a day of sick leave if say....wife works and your child is in need to stay home from school because they're sick. If you need to burn a day because you need to stay close to the restroom, or you may be infectious but can still look normal. I ask this as it has come up that you (if you call in sick) were seen out of the house and you look normal.

[CaptOldTimer]

Jay, there is abuse and the departments know it. Sometimes the department and or city/county which encourages it so the member will not have a lot of days or lose any time.

Those who have unlimited time, as we did, have to produce a sick slip within 24 hours after marking off sick. This tends to cut down on the abuse.

[JayDudley]

Aware

I know as well as you do that there are individuals who abuse the system. I'm addressing those who need a sick day and are not sick and have to tend to a family member who is. Are we allowed to burn a day in this instance and not feel like we're wanted by the police. I agree that there are those who as soon as they accrue 24 hours of sick leave they take it. That is not who I'm asking about.....

[CaptOldTimer]

I know as well as you do that there are individuals who abuse the system. I'm addressing those who need a sick day and are not sick and have to tend to a family member who is. Are we allowed to burn a day in this instance and not feel like we're wanted by the police. I agree that there are those who as soon as they accrue 24 hours of sick leave they take it. That is not who I'm asking about.....

Under federal law, which came about under the Bill Clinton term, The Family & Medical Leave Act (FMLA). You can take it off and be charged against your accrued account balance

http://www.employer-employee.com/fmla.html

We allowed this using the above as a guideline.

[TVFR9923]

I know as well as you do that there are individuals who abuse the system. I'm addressing those who need a sick day and are not sick and have to tend to a family member who is. Are we allowed to burn a day in this instance and not feel like we're wanted by the police. I agree that there are those who as soon as they accrue 24 hours of sick leave they take it. That is not who I'm asking about.....

I worked at a department where we could do this. It was called "family sick". I think we were allowed 2-3 24 hr shifts of it per year.

[tree68]

I worked at a department where we could do this. It was called "family sick". I think we were allowed 2-3 24 hr shifts of it per year.

Federal leave slips have a checkbox which allows for invoking the Family Leave Act. It can be kind of a trump card if the boss is a bit stingy with granting time off.

[FWDbuff]

Federal leave slips have a checkbox which allows for invoking the Family Leave Act. It can be kind of a trump card if the boss is a bit stingy with granting time off.

I was a Federal Firefighter at a facility where the Administration though that the funds for sick leave came out of their own pockets. I transferred in there from another facility where we were invoked FFL all the time. When I got to the new place, and invoked it, they told me I could not. I then had to get Personnel/Payroll to contact Admin and the Union and educate them in the error of their ways.

Getting back to the OP's query about "being seen".....As a Federal Employee, when you call in sick, your supervisor may not ask you what the problem is. You only need to advise them that you are taking S/L for the shift, or for 8 or 12 or however many hours. Another tidbit of information presented to this particular Administration.

Taking FFL over Christmas 2005 due to the birth of my son (12/19) was not fun when it came to this Administration. The guys didn't care, but the Admin was not so nice about it.

Sick Leave usage is rampant in the Federal Fire Service at installations where they work 24/24, for obvious reasons.

[JayDudley]

Thanks

Thank you all for the info. I read the article in a Fire Magazine and thought that it was wrong to assume if you use your sick leave...you need to be sick. It's hard to persuade the brass that just because you called in sick you don't need to hide out in the house to be undetected .

[jccrabby3084]

Thank you all for the info. I read the article in a Fire Magazine and thought that it was wrong to assume if you use your sick leave...you need to be sick. It's hard to persuade the brass that just because you called in sick you don't need to hide out in the house to be undetected .

I would say it depends on how sick time can be used, if the hours can be broken down and so forth. I would agree there are circumstances that occur where sick time is justified, even if the actual member is not sick. There are times when there is a doctor's appt etc, for either family or member where a few hours may need to be taken off. There are also times where you just can't get back into work such as a delayed flight, etc. It also goes towards the simple fact that this is a benefit for the most part as well, while it shouldn't be abused, it shouldn't be garnering adverse scrutiny either.

The issue about the reason you took off sick should still be an important factor. You may not have to "hide out" in the house, but there is an aspect of reason as well. What I mean is it certainly isn't right to take a sick day because you are watching a family member, only to go out at night because the wife is now home etc. If you are able to go back to work, then go back to work, if not, well then don't give people a reason to claim abuse. I don't agree with someone calling in sick and then later seen golfing, fishing, etc, that just furthers an issue of abuse.

At one time we also had such issues of sick time abuse claims, even so far as the chief stating a doctor's order was necessary to justify sick time. If you were sick, you had to go to the ER or urgent care, if too sick to go, you had to have a slip before returning to work. If you were there for a family member, it was the same thing. The idea didn't last too long, especially when bills started to come in to the city for a "doctor's note". However, the fact remained that management does have rights and if one is "sick" and subsequently seen out golfing etc, then they could and perhaps should be singled out for a doctor's reasoning.

[FireMedic049]

My point is can he/she take a day of sick leave if say....wife works and your child is in need to stay home from school because they're sick.

We can. I was able to get language added in our latest contract that specifically permits the use of sick time in order to care for a family member who is sick or injured.

If you need to burn a day because you need to stay close to the restroom, or you may be infectious but can still look normal. I ask this as it has come up that you (if you call in sick) were seen out of the house and you look normal.

It's quite possible to not "look sick" and it be inappropriate to be at work. One such way is to be injured in some fashion. I'd say the use of sick time would most certainly be appropriate rather than coming to work and not being able to physically do the job.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what you are doing. Certainly being seen on the Golf course while on a sick day should raise an eyebrow or two, but being sick doesn't necessarily mean being "homebound". Kind of hard to go to the doctor office, pharmacy, etc without leaving the house.

[mcwops]

Our city has a policy that sick days may only be used for sickness of the employee or family member. If seen out and about (on the beach, golf course, etc., you know obvious not sick kind of things), you will get in trouble.

[MemphisE34a]

If you have accrued sick time and you follow the policy of the agency you work for, how is calling in sick abuse?

[FireMedic049]

If you have accrued sick time and you follow the policy of the agency you work for, how is calling in sick abuse?

You obviously don't have an updated copy of the "Municipal Government Handbook".