A Few "Why" Questions of the Fire Service

[BoxAlarm187]

1 3/4 hose at 200 feet gives us about 200 gpm.

Almost 50 pounds of FL per 100'?

[GTRider245]

As far as the hooks go we carry a mix of roof hooks, pike poles, boston rakes, dry wall hooks and LA trash hooks so you have the best tool for what you need. Each has there own advantages and disadvantages. Nozzles we still run 100 psi TFTs as we pump our 1 3/4 handlines at 195 so there really isn't a need to use a lower pressure nozzle.

I think you have it backwards. Nozzle pressure dictates what to pump the line at, not the other way around. You wouldnt have to pump those lines at 195 if you cut your nozzle pressure in half...

And have you put this theory to test with a gauge? Depending on hose, you may not be getting anywhere close to 200 GPM...

[L-Webb]

195?! What length preconnect and type of hose?

We can take our PDP as high as 230 psi, 200' of 1.75, gpm at 245-260. That's not common but it can be done.

[BoxAlarm187]

We can take our PDP as high as 230 psi, 200' of 1.75, gpm at 245-260. That's not common but it can be done.

Sure, most anyone CAN do that. But, if I need a flow like that, give me the Vindicator.

[GTRider245]

We can take our PDP as high as 230 psi, 200' of 1.75, gpm at 245-260. That's not common but it can be done.

Once again, is this in theory or have you put a gauge on it? Why work the truck and the guys on the line that hard when you could just pull a 2 1/2" and make everyone's life easier?

[MemphisE34a]

Darwin at work....

Like I said, I have pulled more than a few wires out of the way with a pike pole, some of the arcing all the way. Why wouldn't you?

Of coarse we will cut wires at the weather head with a hot stick if necessary. Fiberglass is not just a non conductor for the L,G, and W employees, it retains that magical property to fireman too.

[happyvalleyff]

This was measured multiple times and has been proven that we flow the 200 gpm. The reason for this is we wanted 200 gpm from our preconnects it also means you hardly ever get kinks as the pressure takes care of most of them. The nozzle reaction is not that bad since most fires dont require the full 200 gpm for an extended period of time and with the automatic nozzle we can open the bail as needed to produce the flow needed so most of the time your not flowing the full 200 gpm.

[hwoods]

Yep...............

And that's why it is SO important to put fat people on the knob!

Put Bubba and Bubbette on the Line once........... Got it up to 9,000psi and the Pump and Hose blew all apart, but they never budged............

[tree68]

Open the throttle slowly while watching the Nozzleman. When his feet leave the ground, turn the throttle back one turn.............

I've been told that we once had a pump operator who figured there was a reason they put a governor on the engine...

That was in the day of the 85 GPM "mystery nozzle." No automatics back then.

[DetroitFF]

1. Why does anyone still order pike poles when roof hooks do everything a pike pole can do, but better?

A few of our rigs have a NY hook, and from what I've seen crews use it only if there are no more 6' pike poles left. The times I've gotten stuck with the hook I hated it -- just not as effective as the pike pole.

2. Why do many departments still use 100 PSI nozzles when the same flow (and sometimes more) can be had with the same type of nozzle with a lower nozzle pressure?

Same reason we banned Ray Davies and his blokes from our country for several years in the '60s -- to keep away the kinks.

[GFPD2005]

More so in Europe, but some US departments are starting to realize the importance of cooling un-ignited fire gases overhead of firefighters in a structure. The pulsing technique used to cool the gases is best achieved using nozzles in a fog pattern. Using a lower pressure nozzle produces more course water droplets. Instead of being absorbed in the fire gases the droplets can penetrate and hit the ceiling, resulting in excessive steam production. A higher nozzle pressure will produce finer droplets that will stay in the fire gas layer to cool or inert the layer from possible ignition.

If you want a much better and more detailed explanation see the CFBT-US blog below.

http://cfbt-us.com/wordpress/?m=200811

.....You asked.

[Whocares]

I have never found it all that hard to use a pike pole effectively. It takes all kinds, I guess...

[GTRider245]

They both have thier place, but for what we most use a pike pole for (pulling ceiling or walls), the roof hook blows it out of the water.

We bought one 6' roof hook this year and after the first fire it was used on, our guys were very vocal about wanting more of them put on the trucks in lieu of pike poles. When you get into all the other uses a metal shafted tool has over a fiberglass one, it just made sense for us.

[hwoods]

Oh?.........

I've been told that we once had a pump operator who figured there was a reason they put a governor on the engine...

Don't think we ever had a Governor on our Engines...... Had a Senator on a few trips, but he's a Member...........

[GTRider245]

More so in Europe, but some US departments are starting to realize the importance of cooling un-ignited fire gases overhead of firefighters in a structure. The pulsing technique used to cool the gases is best achieved using nozzles in a fog pattern. Using a lower pressure nozzle produces more course water droplets. Instead of being absorbed in the fire gases the droplets can penetrate and hit the ceiling, resulting in excessive steam production. A higher nozzle pressure will produce finer droplets that will stay in the fire gas layer to cool or inert the layer from possible ignition.

If you want a much better and more detailed explanation see the CFBT-US blog below.

http://cfbt-us.com/wordpress/?m=200811

.....You asked.

Interesting view no doubt. We teach to pulse the ceiling with a straight stream, so it really doesn't affect our methods one way or the other. I wouldn't be able to justify to anyone around here that we needed to keep the 100 PSI nozzles instead of swapping to low pressure models just by using the argument above and the whole "low pressure causes more kinks" deal. Why I think both points do hold water(no pun intended), I think the benefits still outweigh these two small and often irrelevant disadvantages.

This is why I started this thread. Veiws from all over are always good to hear.