Aerial tower vs. ladder

[Rescue101]

187,Maybe this will help, T.C.

[CGITCH]

In my rural area our closest aerial is 45 minutes. I guarantee you go down and ask our guys the difference they will look at you like WTF? To them a ladder is a ladder is a ladder. It took me awhile to find the differences. Hell, I've only been on an aerial once on a ride-along and it was what I would consider a tower. Platform on end of ladder with waterway.

[MemphisE34a]

LaFireEducator, thank you for being a voice of reason.

Three WOW's!!!

There is a sentence I never expected to read.

[tree68]

Quads (4)......aka your standard pumper truck...has 1)ground ladders, 2)pump, 3)booster tank, and 4)hose.

Wrong.

Your typical Engine/Pumper is a triple combination - pump, booster, hose. The ladders aren't a factor as such (standards notwithstanding).

A quad also has the full complement of ground ladders, as already mentioned. Not many left outside of SPAAMFAA.

A quint adds the aerial.

The designations stem back to the early days of fire apparatus, where the pump, hose, and ladders would arrive as separate pieces. There were also "booster" rigs, usually with chemical apparatus.

When vehicles got big/powerful enough to handle it, the pump, hose, and booster functions were combined into one apparatus - the "triple combination."

Quads and quints grew from there.

[nameless]

I'm surprised quads aren't more popular in rural areas. You still need the ground ladders, even if you don't use the aerials. I guess that's just a sign of the diminished amount of truck work done at fires.

[Rescue101]

I'm surprised quads aren't more popular in rural areas. You still need the ground ladders, even if you don't use the aerials. I guess that's just a sign of the diminished amount of truck work done at fires.

That and diminished manpower. T.C.

[LaFireEducator]

I'm surprised quads aren't more popular in rural areas. You still need the ground ladders, even if you don't use the aerials. I guess that's just a sign of the diminished amount of truck work done at fires.

Disagree.

First of all, think about the housing stock in rural areas. Up north, a mix of single story and two-story homes. Down here, it's almost 100% single story with a very rare two-story.

The consider the fact that every responding engine carries an extension ladder and a roof ladder, and in my experience, so does at least half the tankers (down here almost all the tankers carry ladders - in fact my combo department's primary tanker carries a 24', a 35' and 2 roof ladders).

In all reality, you'll use 2 sets of ladders to vent a single story roof (primary and escape) and obviously no need to ladder the windows. Add an extension ladder to a window on 3 sides, which gives you a requirement of 5 for a 2-story home. In most cases the engines and tankers with ladders on-scene can easily supply the needed ladders.

I simply don't see it as diminished truck work. I see it as less of a need for truck work in rural areas, especially with the effectiveness and popularity of PPV reducing the need for vertical ventilation and the associated roof work.

[nameless]

first, you're the guy that doesn't think ladder throwing is a basic firefighter function. Second, ladders on tankers is odd. I haven't seen a tanker around here that has ladders, maybe pumper-tankers. Third, better looking at them then for them.

[MemphisE34a]

Yo Memphis, I love ya man. I pretty much am dead on with what you say all the time...But he kinda burned ya there! Haha. The snorkel part was the best!

Yeah....I get got like the best of them every now and then.

I still think it's crazy that someone os using their knowledge of the TV show "Emergency" to legitimize any honest discussion about the fire service.

Guess I will have to include a few seasons of "Rescue Me" on my reseme.

[Jonnee]

Nope, not yet. Former EMT, let my certification lapse, retaking EMT now, and will be starting firefighter training early next year.

Fact - JJR is NOT a firefighter, nor a member of a fire department. He wants to be one.

He sits and dreams up these questions.

Look at his posts!!!


Memphis Lt you are correct Sir, Quad WOW!!!

[CGITCH]

first, you're the guy that doesn't think ladder throwing is a basic firefighter function. Second, ladders on tankers is odd. I haven't seen a tanker around here that has ladders, maybe pumper-tankers. Third, better looking at them then for them.

One of our tankers carries a 35' and a roof ladder. Our other primary one does not, although our new one with delivery anytime will. I don't know why, but our department runs way short on ladders, especially at a rural fire. Pumper has one 35' tanker has one 35' and that is it for extension ladders. Our reserve pumper has another 35' but that rarely responds to a rural incident.I would like to see a change in that, but I doubt it will happen.

[fieldseng2]

I don't suppose you're going to get any of the companies back that were merged when the dept went Quint? What will the engine to ladder ratio be?

Ya right....they actually wanna close more companies and lay off FFs.

Last I heard the plan is to have a Hook&Ladder(truck Co.) in every battalion(district). Right now we have 6 Battalions with only one that does not have a ladder co. Each district would keep a "quint" (for now) and the remaining companies would be a pumper.

[rpferry]

He ALREADY did THAT. AND ARGUED the answers given. T.C.

Dang it! I hate it when I put the horse before the carriage. My bad, this kid is a bit of a Le****** Bag. T.C., thanks for pointing it out.I had read his other posts before but had forgot who he was. French fire helmets and what not.
-Rob

[LaFireEducator]

One of our tankers carries a 35' and a roof ladder. Our other primary one does not, although our new one with delivery anytime will. I don't know why, but our department runs way short on ladders, especially at a rural fire. Pumper has one 35' tanker has one 35' and that is it for extension ladders. Our reserve pumper has another 35' but that rarely responds to a rural incident.I would like to see a change in that, but I doubt it will happen.

We have plenty of ladders on scene between the engines and tanker. Of course, it's extremly rare that we respond to anything but a one-story, so there is a minimum need for ladders even if we vent the roof.

Even in my last department up north, where we had plenty of 2-story homes it was rare that we would take the ladders off the aerial. Generally we would use 1 or 2 ladders off the closest engine(s) and that would suffice to do the job.

[MemphisE34a]

We have plenty of ladders on scene between the engines and tanker. Of course, it's extremly rare that we respond to anything but a one-story, so there is a minimum need for ladders even if we vent the roof.

Even in my last department up north, where we had plenty of 2-story homes it was rare that we would take the ladders off the aerial. Generally we would use 1 or 2 ladders off the closest engine(s) and that would suffice to do the job.

Although this doesn't suprise me coming from you, this seems to be a common problem spreading through out the fire service - lack of truck work.

1. With todays modern aerials, I would challenge nearly any group of two guys throwing portable ladders against one putting the aerial to the same location. They are just to fast and easy to set up now. Work smarter, not harder.

2. Regardless of whether the truck will use the aerial or not, pumpers need to park out of the way and let the truck park as close to in front of the house as possible:

A. This allows the best possible position IF the truck does need to be raised for anything - see #1 above.

B. Spotting a 100' truck leaves a margin of error of 50' or less. Our pumpers have a 1816' margin of error. You can always pull another section of hose - you can NEVER stretch the aerial. It will reach or it won't.

C. Alot of truck tools are heavy - portable ladders, PPV fans, etc.

D. In departments that use both, normally all the support stuff is on the truck - generator, portable lights, salvage tubs, etc.


A good engine driver will pull past the house on fire and park in front of the one next door.