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Is NFPA "independent" enough?

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  • Is NFPA "independent" enough?

    Given that NFPA membership is made up of firefighters and fire equipment manufacturers and vendors, do you think that they are really independent enough to be the group responsible for developing firefighting standards?

    Allowing the manufacturers tp help develop the standards seems like an obvious conflict of interest in that they are always going to be pushing for newer and better equipment that they happen to sell. Are they ever likely to say that the old stuff will be just fine?

    With firefighters it is a little tougher call in that you obviously want people with experience on the ground involved in coming up with standards for stuff like personnel needs. But, I wonder about a conflict of interest there as well. For example, a department may need more firefighters and one way of getting that is to say that they don't meet some NFPA standard, so they have an incentive to try to get that standard higher.

    Obviously, changing the standard is very complicated and no one person is going to be able to influence it that greatly. But, if everyone involved has that sort of thought in the back of their head, it could add up.

    Am I overthinking this? Probably so. But, it does seem like there are potential conflicts of interest involved here. Has anyone actually seen this in practice?

  • #2
    Originally posted by auxman View Post
    Allowing the manufacturers tp help develop the standards seems like an obvious conflict of interest
    It would be a potential conflict if manufacturers made the standards on their own. But they don't; they contribute to the process just like every other stakeholder. No single interest is permitted to monopoloize the process.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
    sigpic
    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
      But they don't; they contribute to the process just like every other stakeholder. No single interest is permitted to monopoloize the process.
      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AH........You should lay off the drugs.

      I have a friend who is on the NFPA hose committee. He loves to tell one story, about how when locks started appearing on 5" storz couplings, it was elbows and azzholes by two certain Mfr's to get them (locks that is) into the NFPA standard. The Committee wanted to explore other types and methods of locking storz couplings before making a decision, but the two Mfr's apparently showed enough money to the big cheeses at Batterymarch Park, and the vote was pushed through.......Much like it is with many other NFPA standards.
      "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
        I have a friend who is on the NFPA hose committee.
        Good for him. I serve on NFPA commmittees, too.

        but the two Mfr's apparently showed enough money to the big cheeses at Batterymarch Park, and the vote was pushed through
        I call bullsh|t on that one. Show all the money to Batterymarch Park you want; it's the individual members of the committees who vote on the standards and they don't work for NFPA.
        "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
        sigpic
        The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
          BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AH........You should lay off the drugs.

          I have a friend who is on the NFPA hose committee. He loves to tell one story, about how when locks started appearing on 5" storz couplings, it was elbows and azzholes by two certain Mfr's to get them (locks that is) into the NFPA standard. The Committee wanted to explore other types and methods of locking storz couplings before making a decision, but the two Mfr's apparently showed enough money to the big cheeses at Batterymarch Park, and the vote was pushed through.......Much like it is with many other NFPA standards.
          Can you say "Kick Backs"!
          Stay Safe
          Bull


          “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
          - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

          Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
          -WINSTON CHURCHILL

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          • #6
            I don't know enough about the inner workings of NFPA to say for sure that there is no bias. Would it necessarily surprise me? No. I have friends who were part of the ACLS revisions a few years ago and claimed that the push for Amiodarone was due to big money being pushed by the drug makers on AHA.

            I do know that the rumor is certainly out there that NFPA is just a puppet organization for firefighters. Do I believe it? No, but unfortunately we have decision makers out there (i.e. politicians) who believe it. In our case it's actually a detriment if I bring up NFPA too much in discussions with Council or the Mayor. They just roll their eyes and mutter under their breath and immediately you know the discussion is over.

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            • #7
              There is no denying that they have some remarkable access and influence.
              I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

              "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

              "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
                There is no denying that they have some remarkable access and influence.
                Like the 10 year from manufacuting date life span of fire helmets... Gosh, I wonder who pushed that one?
                ~Drew
                Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
                USAR TF Rescue Specialist

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by FiremanLyman View Post
                  Like the 10 year from manufacuting date life span of fire helmets... Gosh, I wonder who pushed that one?



                  You just couldn't resist mentioning helmets... could you?


                  Must be Helmet Week...
                  HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PaladinKnight View Post
                    You just couldn't resist mentioning helmets... could you?


                    Must be Helmet Week...
                    Sorry, Just caught up on JR's euro helmet thread...

                    ...BTW, heard that they find those Euro helmets in abandoned castles, manufactured in 1420 A.D. and worn by the original Knights of Malta. They just repaint them and issue. Also they are rated to 1800 degrees because the dragon problem they have. The red dragon produces flames in excess of 1600 degrees when defending its lair.
                    ~Drew
                    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
                    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FiremanLyman View Post
                      Sorry, Just caught up on JR's euro helmet thread...

                      ...BTW, heard that they find those Euro helmets in abandoned castles, manufactured in 1420 A.D. and worn by the original Knights of Malta. They just repaint them and issue. Also they are rated to 1800 degrees because the dragon problem they have. The red dragon produces flames in excess of 1600 degrees when defending its lair.
                      Yeah... there are very uncomfortable.... wore one during a tour at the Round Table.

                      I hate fighting dragons, they don't fight fair. The reporting on the temperature of dragon flame is in error... it is more like 2200 F depending on the fire load.

                      Our PPE in those days was inferior by today's standards and we found it necessary to carry really big shields. They were much too heavy to mount on the helmet. I was happy when they finally came out with the fire resistant goggles and abestos breast plates.

                      I hope someday to be able to grow leg hairs again.

                      NFPA should study the Euro helmet because of their durability however.
                      HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Try a SOFTER coal in the dragon,hehe T.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have heard that coal fire dragons are supposed to be replaced by natural gas fired or environmentally friendly solar dragons by 2025.

                          If not, the dragons will have to pay a carbon tax.
                          Train to fight the fires you fight.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Funny thing... I never thought about a dragon being Environmentally Friendly.

                            I'll try to reason with the next one I encounter and suggest he turn the thermostat down a bit to save the planet. But I'm sure it will go much like the last meeting when I asked if he had a smoke detector.

                            I still don't know the answer to that question.




                            Note: Because I am absolutley friggin tired of Helmet, POV Lights and NFPA Conspiracy discussions, I have chosen to add some flavor to the discussion.

                            All participants are encouraged to participate by telling their biggest fish story, or dragon story.

                            It will at least be entertaining and just as useful as a discussion about you know what...


                            At the very least, we can hope this thread gets locked since it is hopelsssly derailed.

                            You can thank me by sending money...
                            HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here's a new poll for jjjr:

                              In your world which condom provides the best protection for your most important head?
                              A all natural lambskin
                              B synthetic
                              C Latex
                              D bareback




                              :-}

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