How to break a hooligan

[Dibbs12]

I'm working on trying to convince the higher ups to buy Pro Bars in stead of the Hooligans we have been purchasing.

I'm looking for some evidence that the pins in a Hooligan that hold the fork and adz to the shaft can break, does anyone have any example of this happening, if so how did it happen, what was being done with the tool?

Also I'm looking for any other reasons why the Pro Bar is superior to the Hooligan, I know the pro bar has a skinnier fork and is one solid piece, anything else?

If you don't know what a Hooligan is see here http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...standard_claw/

pro bar http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr..._1442_pro_bar/

[VESmedic]

I'm working on trying to convince the higher ups to buy Pro Bars in stead of the Hooligans we have been purchasing.

I'm looking for some evidence that the pins in a Hooligan that hold the fork and adz to the shaft can break, does anyone have any example of this happening, if so how did it happen, what was being done with the tool?

Also I'm looking for any other reasons why the Pro Bar is superior to the Hooligan, I know the pro bar has a skinnier fork and is one solid piece, anything else?

If you don't know what a Hooligan is see here http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...standard_claw/

pro bar http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr..._1442_pro_bar/

well, not only is the fork skinnier, it is much more curved, and has much more of a "bite" to it when inserted into a door jam, thus creating much less effort when forcing a door. It also very noticably lighter, that is the first thing you will notice. Honestly in my opinion, they are a no brainer, however they are more expensive so that is understandable why they aren't already on your engines/trucks.

[tree68]

They both appear to be Halligan bars, with what appears to be minor differences in construction.

Both cost within $10 of $200, according to the links provided. Unless you're buying them by the gross, that difference is negligible.

I'm presuming both will serve about the same function, with perhaps some minor differences.

I'd also guess that if you gave a forcible entry team either one, they'd get in.

We've never broken whichever one we have.

Looks like it comes down to personal preference.

[Bushwhacker]

They both appear to be Halligan bars, with what appears to be minor differences in construction.

Both cost within $10 of $200, according to the links provided. Unless you're buying them by the gross, that difference is negligible.

I'm presuming both will serve about the same function, with perhaps some minor differences.

I'd also guess that if you gave a forcible entry team either one, they'd get in.

We've never broken whichever one we have.

Looks like it comes down to personal preference.

Exactly what Tree said^. The pins that hold the claw and head to the shaft are simple counter sunk pins that hold the heads from falling off . The shaft extends into the claw and adaze/point, little force actually gets put on the pins, except when twisting the claw and Adaze in opposite directions.

[hwoods]

Yep.............

Exactly what Tree said^. The pins that hold the claw and head to the shaft are simple counter sunk pins that hold the heads from falling off . The shaft extends into the claw and adaze/point, little force actually gets put on the pins, except when twisting the claw and Adaze in opposite directions.

What He Said^. We've had at least ten of every kind that there is. I honestly like the real Halligan Bar, but they all get the job done. And, there is one style that we had (still got a couple) that have a "Can Opener" style Fork. I've used that sucker on a number of jobs where cutting Metal was a part of the work, and it was great.........

[LVFD301]

What all three he said /\.

[RFDACM02]

I'll go against the grain a little and state that while most of the "Halligan" wannabe's will be functional, they are not built to the standards that maximize the capability of the tool.

Pro-bar/"real" Halligan vs. most others:
1. the Pro-bar fork is both thinner and better curved as noted previously, allowing the best bite and leverage.
2. The forks are spread properly to complete the marriage correctly, eliminating the need for silly marriage straps or as we call them: civil unions.
3. many pseudo bars are poorly weighted to the ends and make them less comfortable in the hand.
4. The adze on the Pro-bar (like the whole thing) is also a product of many years of trial by actual fire thanks to the Brothers at FDNY who see a little more FE work than the rest of us.
5. The pike point. See #4.

Some of the copycat bars are better than others, but at the minimal price difference why buy anything else. Sadly, many FD's have Chief's or purchasing agents that are far enough removed from the field to even care enough to know the difference. It may not be enough to go out and replace a bunch of the copycats, but if you're buying them anyway, nothing beats the real deal.

[WD6956]

My local dealer stocks both the Pro Bar and the Paratech version and they sell a LOT of them. I asked if he had ever had any brought back of either type and he said in the 12 years he worked there, he has never had one come back defective.

While the heads are pinned on with the cheaper versions, understand that the pin is not what is holding the heads on. They are press fit using a hydraulic press. The pin's primary purpose is to keep the heads from rotating under extreme force. In any event, even if the pin were removed, the head would likley not budge under all but the most severe abuse.

I am a die hard fan of the Pro Bar and would gladly pay extra for one any day. Nothing beats a one piece steel forging. But the pinned versions are fine for the majority of departments and unlikley to ever fail. Think of how many departments in smaller towns that have little to no (steel) commercial doors to force? Then think of how few doors overall are forced per year?. A pinned bar would last forever in those type situations. And Paratech has a lifetime warranty anyway. So in the rare instance you had a bar fail, you will get a new one for free.

If you want new bars because you prefer the claw on a ProBar, fine. But to argue that strength wise, a Paratech bar is "flimsy" seems a bit much. The fact that you are trying to find a way to break one because it will not break under normal use proves that.

[BW21]

what these five said ^^^

[RFDGloWorm]

Pro-Bar, all the way....the other RFD was right on point.

[ftmptb212]

Pro Bar all the way. In fact I have owned and carried my own for over 8 years. It is by far a better forcible entry tool than the hooligans. As far as the pinned tools breaking, I know that one broke at my dept during training, and I saw the pieces of one at FDIC one year, they made a point of showing us that is broke. I don't know the circumstances of either one. Personally go with the pro bar it is by far superior in design and strength.

[Rarified27]

Every brand suffers damage- most have chipped adz edges and the occasional pike snapped off.

Regardless of brand, just make sure you've got more than one on each rig.

For my money the pro bar is the real deal- bought one about two years ago.

[EastKyFF]

Probably a number of broken hooligans in this photo.

[nameless]

Id make the case on the differences in the fork ends. The forks on the hooligan suck, the pro-bar has thin, curved forks.

[MontvilleFire39]

Really? It's a damn halligan bar.