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  • #61
    Originally posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Anyway, back to the topic at hand (Im sure LA would love to chime in with tactics LOL)....when popping the tile or drop down ceiling....it may not be a bad idea to flip the hook over and make a smaller hole with just the but end of the hook. Its rare, but on occasion the hook can get caught up and pull down a larger section of ceiling, causing a ****loft explosion.
    It won't let you say C.O.C.K.loft.
    IAFF

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    • #62
      Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
      Honestly, I really don't care what you do in NYC.

      My point was simply that the majority of the fire service, which is primarily volunteer, has a very difficult time operating with the engine-truck concept that you are quite used to, either because the majority of VFDs do not operate truck companies, and if they do, staffing on engines and trucks is irregular and often "engine guys" have to do truck work and "truck guys" may have to be swapped into engine work.

      The same can be said for VFDs that don't run trucks but may operate a rescue or squad which may function as a truck.

      In these situations it's quite common that the guys arriving on the engine(s) will pull line , attack interior, set up PPV, go to the roof and pull ceilings and conduct overhaul. It's also quite possible that if the engines are arrive short, the guys who arrive on the truck will be assigned hose work. Again, all of the above fireground operations but in many places the terms engine work and truck work don't exist.
      Hmmn,Interesting. Nah, can't be. Our TRUCK (Quint)carries enough equipment that we can WORK four "truck"companies and TWO Engine companies off one rig. Last time I checked, we fit into the "volunteer" checkbox. Now the membership are cross trained but when they're on the TRUCK,the first crew off does TRUCK work. Other companies arriving MAY be assigned an Engine co function. And our system works for us, based on our response numbers . T.C.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by snowball View Post
        It won't let you say C.O.C.K.loft.
        Or C.O.C.K.tail,T.c.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
          Honestly, I really don't care what you do in NYC.

          My point was simply that the majority of the fire service, which is primarily volunteer, has a very difficult time operating with the engine-truck concept that you are quite used to, either because the majority of VFDs do not operate truck companies, and if they do, staffing on engines and trucks is irregular and often "engine guys" have to do truck work and "truck guys" may have to be swapped into engine work.

          The same can be said for VFDs that don't run trucks but may operate a rescue or squad which may function as a truck.

          In these situations it's quite common that the guys arriving on the engine(s) will pull line , attack interior, set up PPV, go to the roof and pull ceilings and conduct overhaul. It's also quite possible that if the engines are arrive short, the guys who arrive on the truck will be assigned hose work. Again, all of the above fireground operations but in many places the terms engine work and truck work don't exist.
          You are still arguing a completely different topic....

          and as for me not understanding how VFDs work.....LOL
          Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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          • #65
            Another thought... The use of a flat roof that is of light-weight construction and then all the stuff that is kept up there such as Commercial A/C Units.

            Add to this the recent use of "membrane" to cover the decking. You can visually tell this by the plastic vent covers to allow air to circulate through and moisture to escape. On my Truck Company, we all carry straight razors to cut the membrane. Another good way to deal with it is to knock-off the plastic vent and rip the membrane with a Rubbish Hook.

            The list is long.....
            "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

            Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

            Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Rescue101 View Post
              Hmmn,Interesting. Nah, can't be. Our TRUCK (Quint)carries enough equipment that we can WORK four "truck"companies and TWO Engine companies off one rig. Last time I checked, we fit into the "volunteer" checkbox. Now the membership are cross trained but when they're on the TRUCK,the first crew off does TRUCK work. Other companies arriving MAY be assigned an Engine co function. And our system works for us, based on our response numbers . T.C.
              Wasn't referring to equipment, but was referring to manpower responding.

              Honestly, for a single family residental fire, an engine has the tools to perform a roof ventilation 95% of the time, even if it doesn't carry a chainsaw. In fact, one of my past departments took the hard suction off an engine, added an extra set of ladders in it's place and carried 2 K-12's and 2 chainsaws, as well as additional hand tools, and performed as the primary "truck company" for my department plus 2 other auto-aid districts. It could still function as an engine, either attack or supply, if needed.

              In my current department we don't run a truck, but the heavy rescue carries all the saws, fans and hand tools (less the ladders) needed to perform truck work. We do not assign the crew to that task. When they arrive they simply become part of the manpower pool and may be assigned, either as a group or person-by-person to whatever tasks are needed at that point. In many cases, the engine crew (if it rolls with 5) will be assinged to set up the PPV fan while 2 memebers flake out the initial attack line. They are also expected to bring in at least 1 3-5' pike pole with them (if a 3-man entry crew) to open ceilings as they go and check for extension. It's the 2nd lines primary job to open ceilings for extension.

              My point was in a volunteer response, where you may very well get 2 or 3 members on the first due engine and 5 on the first due truck, or visa versa there needs to be the flexability to take members off the tasks assigned to the apparatus they arrive on and switch them to another set of tasks normally performed by the crew of another apparatus type.

              As far as tactics, this is important as in many places, unless there is a dedicated truck company with dedicated tasks, the pulling of the false celing will be a task assigned to the interior line crews. If you have a 3-man team, there is simply no reason why the crew with the line not capable of pulling ceiling tiles as they go for inspection.
              Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-22-2010, 09:59 AM.
              Train to fight the fires you fight.

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              • #67
                Again,it's area dependent. OUR Ladder goes with a minimum of four but is augmented(as is the Engine)with members arriving on other transportation be it apparatus or POV.While I don't totally disagree with your synopsis,here Truckies do TRUCK work and Engine guys drag hoses. And the Dept has enough folks that like to do both or they work in a single arena by their preference. On the Admin side,we don't care as long as the requested task gets done and there is enough people to complete the mission. Oh,they are assigned a specfic function but with a roster of 65,you know who likes to do what.And just cause it works for us doesn't mean it will work for you. But we DO keep the two jobs separate, and OUR Engine guys don't pull ceilings. They don't HAVE to,the guys working the Truck will GLADLY do that for them. T.C.
                Last edited by Rescue101; 11-22-2010, 10:03 AM.

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                • #68
                  101 ..

                  If you have a system where there is enough response on each peice to have them dedicated to a task, that's great, and in a VFD, that's a nice situation to have.

                  Most VFDs don't have that luxury and will roll pieces with less than the optimum number simply because they have to, and assignments have to be made on the fireground as staffing permits as compared to dedicated companies/crews with pre-assigned tasks.

                  In our situation though, given the strip mall scenerio, I can see the handline being assigned the task of pulling the ceiling tiles as they go to check for heat/fire in the overhead space during the intial fire attack and exposure operations phase.

                  Now, once we reach the overhaul stage, we do rotate fresh crews from staging to pull celings and walls to augment the handline crews, if manpower permits. Often it it's a significant fire, we will have mutual aid on hand by that time to assist us with that task.
                  Train to fight the fires you fight.

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                  • #69
                    I understand your frustration. That is EXACTLY WHY we set the Quint up as we did for JUST this type of scenerio. There is enough tools on this Rig to do all these tasks and more. We have a Sizable day crew and it is a RARE event we can't fully staff the primary rigs. Oh,it happens but it is NOT common. T.C.

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                    • #70
                      Fascias... There's another concern.

                      Don't ladder them, be cautios if you have hose/Crews under them, open them up to check for extension if fire is in the front of the store, they hide what the roof looks like, many times they can have clay tiles/plywood/signs on top of 2 x 4s trusses that are gang plated and no fire blocks/seperations.

                      There is another concern... And the associated reasons. Check within your 1st Due and look at the various Strip Malls. Since you are a Student, when you have some free time drive around and take some pictures of all the sides of your local Strip Malls and sit down with the Crews that are 1st Due to them; pick their brains.
                      "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

                      Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

                      Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

                      Comment

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