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Ind. Firefighter Suspended for Bar Room Arrest

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  • Ind. Firefighter Suspended for Bar Room Arrest

    What are your thoughts on the incident/outcome ?

    How is the policy in your dept addressed on something of this nature?


    ooops... forgot to add the link

    http://www.firehouse.com/topic/polit...ar-room-arrest
    Last edited by Capt387; 10-28-2010, 11:10 AM.
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Capt387 View Post
    What are your thoughts on the incident/outcome ?

    How is the policy in your dept addressed on something of this nature?
    Link?
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MarcusKspn View Post
      Link?
      Sorry... Thought I did....

      http://www.firehouse.com/topic/polit...ar-room-arrest
      Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

      Comment


      • #4
        From the article....

        Professional Fire Fighters Union of Indiana district president Robert Loviscek represented Musselman at the meeting. He said 30 days seemed "a little bit much," but Musselman said he was comfortable with the chief's recommendation.
        Seems like the union is fine with it.
        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

        Comment


        • #5
          My department doesn't have a formal policy for such an incident. It would likely be handled as a stand-alone.

          A neighboring department was well known for suspending folks for a number of things, including doing something stupid (but not necessarily illegal) whilst wearing the department jacket.

          Given the circumstances regarding the pain relief medicine I'd be tempted to give the guy a pass, with a slap on the wrist. Then again, if those 30 days make others think about "reading the label" and consider such reactions, then maybe the purpose has been served.
          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think he got what he deserved as he should have received.

            Just because you are a firefighter or fireman, doesn't mean you can go into places and raise holy hell, if things don't suit you.

            Trying to pull the police officer weapon, was a big no no.

            Comment


            • #7
              A little steep, maybe. But the fact that the individual accepted it and the union didn't make a fool out of itself defending his actions is refreshing.
              My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
              "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
              George Mason
              Co-author of the Second Amendment
              during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
              Elevator Rescue Information

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jonnee View Post
                Trying to pull the police officer weapon, was a big no no.
                He is damn lucky.....Had he done that in Philly, he'd be lucky to make it to the ICU......Because he would probably be headed to the morgue.
                "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am a union rep that has been tasked with defeding members for lesser crimes. I believe that this individual is lucky to have a job if he indeed went for a police officers weapon. If this was my town he would be dead. That being said, the incident may have been exaggerated. If their is medical documentation that the drug the FF was on could react with alcohol than I think the punishment could be reduced. If no evidence exists than I applaud the Departmetn for giving a member another chance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What is your departments policy on reporting such an incident giving the situations:

                    1. it happened out of state.
                    2. charges were reduced to misdemeanors.
                    3. it was precipitated because of prescribed drugs.
                    4. he never lost his license.

                    As long as he wasn't wearing a dept shirt, could he be held accountable for something that happened off duty?
                    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eastcoastFF View Post
                      If their is medical documentation that the drug the FF was on could react with alcohol than I think the punishment could be reduced.
                      If there is medical documentation that the drug being perscribed could react with alcohol, then the fireman would have been made well aware of that by the person filling the Rx, the pharmacist handing over the Rx, on the pamphlet you recieve with the Rx, and plainly affixed with a sticker on the Rx....

                      If there is medical documentation that the drug could react with alcohol and shouldn't be mixed with alcohol, if anything the punishment should be increased just for being plain stupid.

                      At what point in time do we stop feeling sorry for ANY person doing STUPID crap?
                      Co 11
                      Virginia Beach FD

                      Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

                      'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My opinion is the punishment is fair. He is lucky he still has a job and didn't get shot or beat up by the police for going for the officer's weapon. That is a huge no no that usually is a self correcting error because you don't get a chance to do it a second time!

                        In my department, it is a requirement for employment to maintain a WI driver's license. If you do something to get it suspended or revoked, you are suspended from duty until such time you get a valid license again.

                        In my department, our SOG's state if you are arrested for any criminal activity, you are placed on administrative leave from duty pending the investigation and the resolution of the charges. If you are convicted of any charges, then they are subject to disciplinary action up to, and including termination. This is looked at on a case by case basis.
                        Jason Knecht
                        Firefighter/EMT
                        Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                        Eau Claire, WI

                        IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                        http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                        EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Capt387 View Post
                          What is your departments policy on reporting such an incident giving the situations:

                          1. it happened out of state.

                          Should not be a factor in my opinion, a crime is a crime, no matter where it happened. If there is a policy for a situation like this, it should be followed regardless of the location of the incident.

                          2. charges were reduced to misdemeanors.

                          Usually any charge would result in at least a review

                          3. it was precipitated because of prescribed drugs.

                          Wrong. It was precipitated because of alcohol.

                          4. he never lost his license.

                          That shouldn't really have anything to do with the case at hand.

                          As long as he wasn't wearing a dept shirt, could he be held accountable for something that happened off duty?
                          One question would be this: If you had an applicant who did the exact same thing, would you hire him? We are often sitting on a high horse when we tell people that ask questions about prior convictions, telling them that a black mark on their record means that they are not trustworthy. Does that change after a person is hired?

                          The most important thing is that the firefighter, his union, and his employeer reached a solution that everybody agrees comfortable with.
                          "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Markus, you are correct on #3. I wrote it that way to see if anyone would see it that way. You are completely correct, if no alcohol had been consumed there wouldn't have been a problem to start with. My thing is I have seen PI's from my career dept never discussed even though it has to be reported. I can show you people that have been arrested and never a days suspension whatsoever. Public intx is still a misdemeanor and never dealt with. My thing is if you go to jail for whatever reason, a suspension should be in order. Medications, whatever they be, possible interactions should be the first thing asked as it doesn't have to be just alcohol that is the problem. A few yrs back I had a work place accident and the doctor prescribed neurontin for a issue I was having. While off I mistakenly forgot to take my night time dose one night so the next morning I took the nighttime dose and within 30 minutes I had to lay down. The meds at that level had such a sedating effect I could not function. I called the dr and advised him of my job issues and he kept me off work for 5 months over the med
                            Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That being said, the incident may have been exaggerated. If their is medical documentation that the drug the FF was on could react with alcohol than I think the punishment could be reduced.
                              This is the exact union excuse making bs I was alluding too. IF IF IF
                              What IF personal responsibility stepped in? Examples; Not drinking to excess? Knowing how meds reacts? NOT trying for the cops gun? You know, silly things like this.....
                              Better yet: what IF the cop shot the idiot dead for going after his weapon? 30 days doesn't seem so bad now, does it?
                              Last edited by SPFDRum; 10-29-2010, 11:06 AM.
                              My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
                              "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                              George Mason
                              Co-author of the Second Amendment
                              during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
                              Elevator Rescue Information

                              Comment

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