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Reasons why Chiefs do not like NFPA leather helmets in volunteer depts?

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  • #31
    Maybe it's just a regional thing, but around here it's never been an issue. I've never had anyone ask if it was OK to buy their own helmet. Nobody is going to go out and drop $500 on a helmet when the department issues you a perfectly good one, brand new in the box usually, for free. I just don't get it

    As a chief, though, I can understand the reasoning for NOT allowing members to wear just whatever they want. It's a liability issue. If a helmet is department issue then the department knows what condition the helmet was in when issued and has some control over its use. A guy shows up with his own helmet, nobody knows its history, whether he bought it on E-bay, whether it's been run over by a truck, or whatever.

    If it were me, if he bought the helmet brand new and it is NFPA compliant, I'd probably allow it. If he showed up with some 15 year old scorched and battered relic, I'd tell him to put it up on his trophy shelf and issue him a standard one.

    And as far as your thread title, I don't think it's a case of chiefs not LIKING leather helmets. It's simple economics. I'd rather get 15 new plastic helmets for the money I'd spend on 5 leather ones.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post

      Being able to scan the fireground and being able to identify your guys, and where they are operating at what tasks, by the helmet style or color.
      That is a great idea in departments like yours where everyone is outside. Departments that have people go inside and put the fire out usually find little use in helmet color coding systems.
      RK
      cell #901-494-9437

      Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

      "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


      Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by MemphisE34a View Post
        That is a great idea in departments like yours where everyone is outside. Departments that have people go inside and put the fire out usually find little use in helmet color coding systems.
        Ooh...Ouch! LOL
        -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

        The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

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        • #34
          Thanks for the very interesting comments everyone! LOL.. (Snowball takes the cake )

          We have Bullard Metros right now and our Chief is planning on a switch to a traditional Bullard in the near future. There is one firefighter and one Lt. that have their own traditional-style helmets that they purchased, plus the Asst. Chiefs and the Chief have dept. issued brain-buckets that are traditional also. The Chief stated that he has no issue with guys buying their own lids as long as they are NFPA.

          I asked the question on here because I remember seeing a few posts where a poster stated that their vollie dept. Chiefs do not allow leathers like the Phenix (NFPA) etc..

          The way I see it, if the dept. has SERIOUS issues with recruitment (i.e. my vollie dept. and others in the area) and a firefighter want's to purchase a leather (NFPA) out of his own pocket, I say let them.. if it keeps them happy and retains them in the department, let 'em buy 4 of them if they want (as long as they are the color that fits their rank) Besides, they are tax-payers and they are volunteering to dedicate their time to fire service in the community.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by SkullKrusher2010 View Post
            The way I see it, if the dept. has SERIOUS issues with recruitment (i.e. my vollie dept. and others in the area) and a firefighter want's to purchase a leather (NFPA) out of his own pocket, I say let them.. if it keeps them happy and retains them in the department, let 'em buy 4 of them if they want (as long as they are the color that fits their rank) Besides, they are tax-payers and they are volunteering to dedicate their time to fire service in the community.
            If the style of helmet is affecting your recruitment (or retention, which I think is what you were going for)... well, that's just bizarre.
            I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

            "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

            "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ChiefKN View Post
              If the style of helmet is affecting your recruitment (or retention, which I think is what you were going for)... well, that's just bizarre.
              We are hurting in numbers.. period. The style of the helmet has nothing to do with it. It has nothing to do with retention either.. The average age of our firefighters is +45 years old and they are NOT in that good of shape (I'm going on 44) . Average Joe's that happen to be firefighters on the side.. We just can't get people to join (Younger people that is). What I am saying is that "beggers can't be choosers". Well, to a point. LOL ..If a firefighter in our dept. wants to wear an N6A leather.. GO FOR IT! If it keeps him/her happy in a "bizarre" way then GREAT.. No sense in harassing a dedicated person over leather or tupperwear (as long as it's NFPA)..

              There is a reason that our Asst. Chiefs and Chief thank us after just about every call.. I have known my fellow firefighters and Chiefs since I was in diapers and they really are thankful that SOMEONE gives a rats ***.. We are a pretty tight group of dedicated men and women.

              I was just asking the original question because I have seen posts on here relating to that.. That's all..

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by MemphisE34a View Post
                That is a great idea in departments like yours where everyone is outside. Departments that have people go inside and put the fire out usually find little use in helmet color coding systems.
                Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!

                Comment


                • #38
                  The way I see it, if the dept. has SERIOUS issues with recruitment (i.e. my vollie dept. and others in the area) and a firefighter want's to purchase a leather (NFPA) out of his own pocket, I say let them.. if it keeps them happy and retains them in the department, let 'em buy 4 of them if they want (as long as they are the color that fits their rank) Besides, they are tax-payers and they are volunteering to dedicate their time to fire service in the community.

                  If somebody decides to leave the department because they refuse to use the helmet that the rest of the team uses, there are more than likely issues with that member's attitude towards the team concept of firefighting.

                  Standardization is part of the fire service.
                  Train to fight the fires you fight.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                    The way I see it, if the dept. has SERIOUS issues with recruitment (i.e. my vollie dept. and others in the area) and a firefighter want's to purchase a leather (NFPA) out of his own pocket, I say let them.. if it keeps them happy and retains them in the department, let 'em buy 4 of them if they want (as long as they are the color that fits their rank) Besides, they are tax-payers and they are volunteering to dedicate their time to fire service in the community.

                    If somebody decides to leave the department because they refuse to use the helmet that the rest of the team uses, there are more than likely issues with that member's attitude towards the team concept of firefighting.

                    Standardization is part of the fire service.

                    Really ?????

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                      Standardization is part of the fire service.
                      ....Except for color of turnout gear, helmet color, apparatus color, rank structure, deployment models, staffing models, radio systems, accountability systems, training requirements, training reciprocity.....
                      Career Fire Captain
                      Volunteer Chief Officer


                      Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
                        ....Except for color of turnout gear, helmet color, apparatus color, rank structure, deployment models, staffing models, radio systems, accountability systems, training requirements, training reciprocity.....
                        Don't forget coupling thread...
                        I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                        "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                        "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post

                          Standardization is part of the fire service.
                          Dude, SERIOUSLY, how do you function at all with your foot shoved in your mouth like that?

                          Has your hypocrisy no limits at all? You who cry and whine and **** and moan about others wanting a NATIONAL STANDARD for training and yet with a straight face here say "Standardization is part of the fire service."

                          Once again I am amazed by your total inability to see what a complete buffoon you are.
                          Crazy, but that's how it goes
                          Millions of people living as foes
                          Maybe it's not too late
                          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                            Dude, SERIOUSLY, how do you function at all with your foot shoved in your mouth like that?

                            Has your hypocrisy no limits at all? You who cry and whine and **** and moan about others wanting a NATIONAL STANDARD for training and yet with a straight face here say "Standardization is part of the fire service."

                            Once again I am amazed by your total inability to see what a complete buffoon you are.
                            If you look at the post, as well as the previous post, you will see that I was referring to standardization within a fire department. Please re-read the posts and you'll see what this was clearly referring to.

                            I beleive there are valid reasons why a chief would want all of his personnel wearing the same helmet, much as they wear the same PPE, station gear, uniforms at the like.

                            No I don't beleive that training and apparatus should be standardized nationwide. That was not the discussion in this post - it was in relation to standardization within a department.
                            Train to fight the fires you fight.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                              Dude, SERIOUSLY, how do you function at all with your foot shoved in your mouth like that?

                              Has your hypocrisy no limits at all? You who cry and whine and **** and moan about others wanting a NATIONAL STANDARD for training and yet with a straight face here say "Standardization is part of the fire service."

                              Once again I am amazed by your total inability to see what a complete buffoon you are.
                              If you look at the post, as well as the previous post, you will see that I was referring to standardization within a fire department. Please re-read the posts and you'll see what this was clearly referring to.

                              I beleive there are valid reasons why a chief would want all of his personnel wearing the same helmet, much as they wear the same PPE, station gear, uniforms at the like.

                              No I don't beleive that training and apparatus should be standardized nationwide. That was not the discussion in this thread - it was in relation to standardization within a department.
                              Train to fight the fires you fight.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
                                ....Except for color of turnout gear, helmet color, apparatus color, rank structure, deployment models, staffing models, radio systems, accountability systems, training requirements, training reciprocity.....
                                read the post addressed to Fryed ... I was simply referring to inner departmental standardization as that what was being discussed in this thread.

                                The other topics are other discussions for another day.
                                Train to fight the fires you fight.

                                Comment

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