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  • Appropriate PPE for being in the vehicle

    The situation is that you're going to be the one that gets to go into the wrecked vehicle to hold C-spine stabilization of a person's head while other crew works on getting the vehicle cut open enough to get that person out.

    What is appropriate PPE to wear in this situation? What do you consider to be the minimum acceptable PPE? In this situation, is there a maximum level of PPE that you would not normally go beyond?

    In this situation, do you think full structural turnout gear is mandatory, or would you consider lighter-weight rescue gear (structural shell but no thermal insulating layer) acceptable?

    While holding C-spine stabilization in this situation, would you wear: medical gloves, rescue or extrication gloves, or structural gloves?
    -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

    The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

  • #2
    We use full turnout gear with EMS gloves.
    Jason Knecht
    Firefighter/EMT
    Township Fire Dept., Inc.
    Eau Claire, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Dickey View Post
      We use full turnout gear with EMS gloves.
      Second. No Helmet, though.

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      • #4
        Full PPE, whether it is structural of extrication PPE. Boots, pants, coat, EMS gloves, extrication gloves over them, goggles available to put on when needed, and a helmet. I realize a helmet may not really fit so be reasonable about the risk/benefit of having it vs not having it on.

        Think about it... If we're supposed to wear full PPE working outside the car, why would being inside the car be any less hazardous?
        Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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        • #5
          And..........

          Flip Flops, Shorts, and "We Fight What You Fear" T Shirt is fine.........

























































          OK, Maybe not........... We use full PPE and Med. Gloves...... As has been pointed out already, You have gone from working AROUND a Hazardous Situation to working IN it.......... I don't have a cow if someone removes their helmet because they NEED to, to be able to work in a tight space, but in General, Yes, use Your Gear.......
          Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
          In memory of
          Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
          Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

          IACOJ Budget Analyst

          I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

          www.gdvfd18.com

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          • #6
            Originally posted by hwoods View Post
            Flip Flops, Shorts, and "We Fight What You Fear" T Shirt is fine.........
            I never ever ever seen anyone do that before. Now if you had thrown in a traffic vest on top of that "We fight what you fear" T-shirt then, just maybe, I would have to agree.
            Stay Safe
            Bull


            “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
            - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

            Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
            -WINSTON CHURCHILL

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hwoods View Post
              Flip Flops, Shorts, and "We Fight What You Fear" T Shirt is fine.........

              Sweet. That's what I'm rocking from now on

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Harve
                Flip Flops, Shorts, and "We Fight What You Fear" T Shirt
                Yep, that's what I'm talking about...

                I have seen this... years ago an off-duty cop arrived wearing the above ppe. He decided to climb into the car with our medic and got covered with blood.

                We carry Drain-o for such occasion. When he protested, we asked "would you rather have acid burns or whatever this guy has...?" Of course we didn't really do it, but he never pulled that stunt again.




                As mentioned, wear full ppe with gloves.

                We don't require our guys to wear helmets due to restricting sight and head movement, but we do require goggles or glasses. I have found that the helmet is more of a hinderance that protective in that situation. If they go in wearing it, they almost always hand it back out.

                Structure PPE is going to limit your ability to move in the compartment. Our medics usually wear standard BDU and White shirt, with a rescue jumpsuit for extrications. Firefighters on the tools wear structure PPE. Medics and firefighters not involved directly on extrication can exercise judgment for PPE.

                Non PPE wearers must wear vests or Structure Coat for compliance with DOT.

                It's not about looking cool.
                It is about doing the job.

                I do like the flip flops though... Can I wear toe socks with them?
                HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                  Flip Flops, Shorts, and "We Fight What You Fear" T Shirt is fine.........
                  That made my morning.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nmfire View Post
                    Full PPE, whether it is structural of extrication PPE. Boots, pants, coat, EMS gloves, extrication gloves over them, goggles available to put on when needed, and a helmet. I realize a helmet may not really fit so be reasonable about the risk/benefit of having it vs not having it on.

                    Think about it... If we're supposed to wear full PPE working outside the car, why would being inside the car be any less hazardous?
                    Makes sense to me.

                    Since you are saying that extrication PPE is fine (that structural PPE isn't mandatory), can I also assume the boots don't need to be structural boots? http://www.globefiresuits.com/footge...peed-lace.aspx is what I have (NFPA 1951 (Technical Rescue), NFPA 1977 (Wildland), NFPA 1992 (Liquid Splash), and NFPA 1999 (Emergency Medical) compliant).
                    -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

                    The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nmfire View Post
                      Full PPE, whether it is structural of extrication PPE. Boots, pants, coat, EMS gloves, extrication gloves over them, goggles available to put on when needed, and a helmet. I realize a helmet may not really fit so be reasonable about the risk/benefit of having it vs not having it on.

                      Think about it... If we're supposed to wear full PPE working outside the car, why would being inside the car be any less hazardous?
                      What he said ^^^^

                      If you are an EMS type, ambulance person only, then you wear what they required for their people.
                      Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                      Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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                      • #12
                        Someone on another forum mentioned the "welder's blanket". Now I don't know if that's what it's actually called, but I forgot to mention it earlier. Is the protective blanket, whatever it's called, always used in situations like this, or does it just depend on the specific situation?
                        -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

                        The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Shouldnt you be asking these questions to your immediate officer ? And of course to answer your question --- always wear a tricked out traditional helmet. Red white and blue tets are reccomended.
                          ?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JJR512 View Post
                            Someone on another forum mentioned the "welder's blanket". Now I don't know if that's what it's actually called, but I forgot to mention it earlier. Is the protective blanket, whatever it's called, always used in situations like this, or does it just depend on the specific situation?
                            If the tools are used, then we do cover the occupants, which is why we usually insert a medic most of the time. Keep in mind, we're cutting metal, removing glass, and stabilizing the vehicle. Things can become projectiles without any warning. So if the guys doing the cutting and spreading are wearing PPE, you must protect everyone in the zone.

                            Divers and passengers don't have PPE. Whether our medics wear Rescue or Structure PPE is a matter of preference, but also may be a situation where they wear what they have. It is common that the Rescue Engine arrives and initiates patient care before the Ambulance arrives. If the firefighter is an EMT, and most are, we are not changing unless the situations dictates; Paramedic level for IV for example.

                            The primary mission is to establish Patient care and part of that is removing them. We can't do much in a Pinto, so we need to do something about that.

                            You will arrive on many of these calls where there is absolutely no way to insert a medic. Pickup Trucks fall into this situation, as do many roll-overs or vehicles that have severly damaged. So you have to do what you can from outside.

                            Rule of thumb is we would like to have someone inside, but sometimes we just can't do it.

                            No matter what, we still have to protect ourselves.

                            You take care of yourself first,
                            your partner second,
                            then everyone eles.
                            HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
                              Shouldnt you be asking these questions to your immediate officer ? And of course to answer your question --- always wear a tricked out traditional helmet. Red white and blue tets are reccomended.
                              What makes you think I haven't asked this question to my "immediate officer"?

                              I did. And the answers I was given are the answers that apply to my county and my volunteer station. But my county and my station aren't the only jurisdictions in the world, oddly enough. I wanted to find out what other departments are doing. I wanted to find out if we're doing it "right". Umm...isn't that one of the great things about having a national forum such as this, that we can find out how other departments and jurisdictions are doing things, maybe learn something from the experience of others?

                              Oh, and red, white, and blue tets are ugly, and I would never use them.
                              -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

                              The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

                              Comment

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