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  • #76
    Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
    I'm a IAFF member, so fell free to explain why in the world a camera requires additional compensation.

    This is nothing like planting GPS in your skin. Now, planting one in an SCBA would be a good comparison. The apparatus belongs to the city, they have the right to alter them in any means they see fit, just as they can alter your SCBA with a pack-tracker system.

    When it comes to guys like you, I see one of two issues. First is you're paranoid and the second is you know you're going to get caught doing the crap you're not supposed to be.
    You caught me, brother.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by LVFD301 View Post
      Pass devices? Did you hold out for extra compensation for them?
      Pass devices cannot be used against me. Camera's can.

      It's not paranoia. It's reality. Anything can be construed as anything. If someone doesn't like you and wants you gone than this gives them the power to do so. This is why Unions were created.

      Maybe its me. Maybe its because I'm in Massachusetts where you have to be in a union, but it works. I'm protected. My family is protected. I know I am paid well and that I cannot be fired for unjust reason.

      I do not need big brother. No one does. Whats next? A camera in bedrooms to make sure no funny business is going on? What about the bathrooms. After all we could be doing drugs. DRAW THE LINE.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by fffred View Post
        again,

        i'm amazed at how cavalier everyone is about big brother. (except for mr. Whocares who seems to often be on the same wavelength as me on many issues, except pike axes! Lol)

        and also i'm surprised at how many amatures are out there.

        Give your department what they claim they want the cameras for...."safe responses" and to protect you.

        What do i mean?

        Lets just say, a department i'm familiar with placed cameras in just less than a dozen companies a few years back. They proposed a 90 day pilot program and after this time had elapsed, the program would go citywide in all appratus. The fire commish at the time was quoted as promising that these cameras were comming because they wanted to reduce accidents.

        Well oddly enough the pilot program was canceled after just more than 3 weeks! Why you ask?

        Well as it turns out the fire department and the city were more concerned with the fact that response times for those companies with cameras and those of the companies that shared quarters with them or responded in with them frequently increased by over 1 min!

        The men driving the rigs knowing a camera was closely monitoring their every movement, defered to the side of caution on every response. Don't cross the double yellow, too dangerous, come to a full and complete stop at every red light or stop sign. (you can imagine what this would do to the fuel bill and maintenance for brakes at the shops if something like this happened citywide)

        in lieu of making a resonable judgement on how to proceed to a box based on expereince and conditions, they focused on what the department claimed was the priority...reducing accidents.

        Therefore when response times increased by over 1 min. It was proven that the priority wasn't safety, but hooking guys up they made misjudgements in their attempt to respond in a timely manner as was encouraged by the chiefs who bore the brunt of the wrath from the upper command.

        You want the cameras gone....give them "safe responses" protect yourself, and your family legally and financially and when response times increase 25% you can see for yourself how important your department considers the need to have you on film 24/7.

        Ftm-ptb
        i hear ya.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by MassFireGuy View Post
          I bet you post it on YouTube as well.
          i'm going to go on a long overdue rant and then I'm done...

          Massfireguy, fffred, and even whocares (though from midwest ... you guys are always refreshing. it takes your kind of years of experience to be able to cut through the crap and bottom line things like you do. no matter what the topic; NFPA bs, tactics, politics or even petty helmet debates. you guys seem to be the only ones that aren't full of crap and hopelessly confused by their lack of experience. This is becoming the "talk" vs the actual "walk" site. and some on here can really spin the crap quite well and give off an air of experience. however, their post content is the real proof in the pudding.

          no matter what thread comes up here, you'll be faced with the same amateurs fighting you to the death. it's a parallel universe made possible in bulk quantities, by the internet.

          Massfire, you were dead on with the youtube comment. Nmfire, was actually banned from a whacker site called elightbars.org. his unbridled sharp tongue got the better of him and on a whacker site nonetheless. he knows more about lights and sirens than the worst hoopie you've seen and has been posting about lights for years. the light interest and years worth of message board posts far outweighs his actual "fire" related postings. i can understand knowing about lights and sirens, but he crosses that threshold of "normal". although, it does sound like he might of grown up a little from his volunteer light days in the recent past.

          Deputymarshal epitomizes the sharp tongue "type" that nmfire displays, but is far more relentless. he will contradict just about anything. people are very careful not to contradict him, because he is like a wordsmith, able to spin almost anything to his advantage in an argument. he also carries his occupation title with him, so people are more respectful to him then they would be if it was another individual posting. If you love this job like me you wouldn't become a fire investigator until you were too old and couldn't do the job anymore. it's not a wonder when this type leaves the job. he did after all come from IT, before getting into the fire svc...just sayin'. from the first time i saw him defend the NFPA, the red flags were up.

          these safety sallies and fire duckers will fight everything. including some of the most fundamental parts of this job. if you doubt me, just look at the thread where these amateurs including pirate boy will even stoop to speak negatively of Ray Mccormack's FDIC speech. thank god for brothers like Ray that are still sticking around the fire service to lead. unfortunately the longer time goes on, the FDNY seems to be the last bastion of this and everything right about this job is becoming the minority, while you jerk off's attempt to discredit them, become the majority. fighting the basics of "putting the fire out" with stupid semantics. again, parallel universe, but true.

          i long for the days of posters like 111truck (RIP), ndemarse, (stopped posting because of the bickering sallies) and others. the good ones don't stoop to bickering with online losers. you won't see many of them here. other good guys that have stuck around are nyckftbl, calmb4storm and the boston guy with the 3/4 boots in his prof. picture.

          this will be my first and only post. thank god for you brothers that are leading the way among this "progressive" generation of wolves in sheep's clothing.

          Comment


          • #80
            This is pointed to MassFireGuy, and the rest of the cry babies, whining about the dash cams.

            Believe it or not, you guys brought it upon yourselves (the fire service in whole) . If you had drivers and/or officers doing their jobs as they are supposed to, there would be no need for them. Since you cannot police yourselves, somebody has to do it for you. Again, you brought it upon yourselves, and required that "Big Brother" step in. It's no fault, but your own.

            As to where it stops, be intelligent, and not some anal paranoid idiot. The stations, while owned by the city/town/jurisdiction, understands due privacy, and will not interfere with those rights (bedrooms/bathrooms).

            If you require compensation for dash cams, you're part of the problem, not the solution. As well, you're one of the ones that gives Unions and its members a black eye.

            As a joke, my night foreman "planted" a GPS device on the dash of our service truck. The next week and a half, 5 of the 6 of us bitched that it was there. They said that they were being babysat, and filed grievances. Me, I didn't care. I have nothing to hide. As well, I pulled the power cord, and found that it wasn't operational. hehe

            If your area needs them, think about "why" they installed them. As for the blackboxes, guess what, it is because you made them do it. 'nuff said.

            FM1
            I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

            Originally posted by EastKyFF
            "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
              This is pointed to MassFireGuy, and the rest of the cry babies, whining about the dash cams.

              Believe it or not, you guys brought it upon yourselves (the fire service in whole) . If you had drivers and/or officers doing their jobs as they are supposed to, there would be no need for them. Since you cannot police yourselves, somebody has to do it for you. Again, you brought it upon yourselves, and required that "Big Brother" step in. It's no fault, but your own.

              As to where it stops, be intelligent, and not some anal paranoid idiot. The stations, while owned by the city/town/jurisdiction, understands due privacy, and will not interfere with those rights (bedrooms/bathrooms).

              If you require compensation for dash cams, you're part of the problem, not the solution. As well, you're one of the ones that gives Unions and its members a black eye.

              As a joke, my night foreman "planted" a GPS device on the dash of our service truck. The next week and a half, 5 of the 6 of us bitched that it was there. They said that they were being babysat, and filed grievances. Me, I didn't care. I have nothing to hide. As well, I pulled the power cord, and found that it wasn't operational. hehe

              If your area needs them, think about "why" they installed them. As for the blackboxes, guess what, it is because you made them do it. 'nuff said.

              FM1
              ^^^so says the fire mechanic.

              we really don't need you to tell us about "our" job. the post from Northeast was regarding inexperienced firemen on here, now we've got a civilian a couple of posts later.
              Last edited by Iessthename; 10-17-2010, 07:01 PM.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                One sure way of recognizing small minded, insecure "managers" is their notion that every new piece of technology, every SOP, and every other resource should be purposed exclusively with finding new and innovative means of handing out punishment rather than trying to use them as tools to improve service delivery.
                You just nailed Orange County Fire Rescues management style on the nose. The management creates a hostile work enviroment and Local 2057 is in a state of disaray right now. I think the guys/girls in the field are just fed up with being nickel and dimed for years by the management/county and being treated like children. This camera fiasco is just a drop in the bucket for Orange County.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Iessthename View Post
                  ^^^so says the fire mechanic.

                  we really don't need you to tell us about "our" job. the post from Northeast was regarding inexperienced firemen on here, now we've got a civilian a couple of posts later.
                  And, much like I'm going to consider you, northeast made no attempt whatsoever to back his allegations of inexperience or to explain his experience.

                  Me, I'll be happy to tell you I've got 15 years experience on the fire side, 13 on the EMS side, and am a chief officer on both the vollie and career side of things.

                  So please, share with us all your level of experience.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by hwoods View Post
                    To refer back to my post on Page 2: I failed to mention that I am not aware of "Management", including myself, reviewing a Dashcam Tape to see what Shirts the Crew was wearing or to hear remarks about someone's Mother-in-law. The purpose of the Cameras is to Protect Our Own People as much as possible.......
                    Not in Orange County. It is used to intimidate and this is just one more tool in their bag of tricks. JMac has a valid concern. You would have to spend some time working there to realize the petty BS that goes on there and the inconsistencies(spl?) in the way that discipline is handed out. Orange County has become a "stepping stone" fire department and they lose so many good firefighters to other departments. Local 2057 should have probably handled this differently and they have some serious issues within the eboard but that is a story for another day. I feel for the brothers and sisters for OCFD. They have a lot of quality firefighters and like I said in a previous post, this camera thing is just a drop in the bucket. Management and the county have been screwing those guys for quite awhile now, they are just beaten up and over it.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by NortheastFH View Post
                      If you love this job like me you wouldn't become a fire investigator until you were too old and couldn't do the job anymore. it's not a wonder when this type leaves the job.
                      What makes you think I'm not still on the job? 25 years so far -- 28 with my volunteer time. So much for your deductive skills... You talk pretty big all around from someone too cowardly to post from his own account and has to create a new one to hide behind. Epic Fail.

                      this will be my first and only post
                      Thanks for letting me know -- at least I won't need to bother putting you on ignore. Odds are your real account is already on there.
                      "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                      sigpic
                      The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
                        And, much like I'm going to consider you, northeast made no attempt whatsoever to back his allegations of inexperience or to explain his experience.

                        Me, I'll be happy to tell you I've got 15 years experience on the fire side, 13 on the EMS side, and am a chief officer on both the vollie and career side of things.

                        So please, share with us all your level of experience.
                        you've been around long enough to know what he and I were talking about then.

                        dropping actual credentials, yrs on, ect... in my humble opinion goes in the same category as name dropping. it makes me feel dirty. but if you should know, major FD, east coast, 18 yrs on, very bad neck, close to retiring. if you were to ask around, you'd find a few guys on here that know me personally, nothing to hide.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by beachfire View Post
                          You just nailed Orange County Fire Rescues management style on the nose. The management creates a hostile work enviroment and Local 2057 is in a state of disaray right now. I think the guys/girls in the field are just fed up with being nickel and dimed for years by the management/county and being treated like children. This camera fiasco is just a drop in the bucket for Orange County.
                          Just connected the dots, I used to work directly for your chief ....

                          JMac73 you may disregard my last question. I completely understand your work environment.

                          For this particular issue, the examples fire administration provided to the television station are pretty compelling, and reinforces your department's decision to implement the DriveCams.

                          If "Red light, Tony, red light! Jesus Christ, Tony!" or the image of a white car entering a green light intersection while the fire rig is closing in at 80 mph is followed by an explosion of smoke and parts ....

                          Your fire chief requires all of the rules, regulations and SOPs to be followed. To the letter. All of the time.

                          He did it in Fairfax County, he did it in Savannah and he has been doing it in Orange County for almost a decade.

                          When he retires, there will remain a culture of uber-enforcement in the command and supervisory staff.

                          That's why the leadership of Orange County recruited him.

                          Hi Carl!
                          Last edited by MikeWard; 10-17-2010, 09:23 PM. Reason: expanding response

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by MikeWard View Post
                            Just connected the dots, I used to work directly for your chief ....

                            JMac73 you may disregard my last question.

                            Hi Carl!
                            Bingo. ////

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by MikeWard View Post
                              We used to have a senior command chief hang out at the hospital after 9 pm to gig the guys who were not wearing their uniform shirts while on the ambulance.

                              JMac73, I appreciate the issue with inconsistent and "gotcha" dings, but were they reviewing the tape as part of a near-miss (alert) or after accident review?

                              When we first got them they were "super sensitive" they would go off if the wind blew, so I was pulling into the back of the station and hit a small bump which activated the camera, so yes it was secondary to an "activation" not any real crazy driving. Since then they have been adjusted and it takes a lot more to get one to go off.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
                                This is pointed to MassFireGuy, and the rest of the cry babies, whining about the dash cams.

                                Believe it or not, you guys brought it upon yourselves (the fire service in whole) . If you had drivers and/or officers doing their jobs as they are supposed to, there would be no need for them. Since you cannot police yourselves, somebody has to do it for you. Again, you brought it upon yourselves, and required that "Big Brother" step in. It's no fault, but your own.

                                As to where it stops, be intelligent, and not some anal paranoid idiot. The stations, while owned by the city/town/jurisdiction, understands due privacy, and will not interfere with those rights (bedrooms/bathrooms).

                                If you require compensation for dash cams, you're part of the problem, not the solution. As well, you're one of the ones that gives Unions and its members a black eye.

                                As a joke, my night foreman "planted" a GPS device on the dash of our service truck. The next week and a half, 5 of the 6 of us bitched that it was there. They said that they were being babysat, and filed grievances. Me, I didn't care. I have nothing to hide. As well, I pulled the power cord, and found that it wasn't operational. hehe

                                If your area needs them, think about "why" they installed them. As for the blackboxes, guess what, it is because you made them do it. 'nuff said.

                                FM1
                                No problem here. Not installed on my job or any of the surrounding communities.

                                Comment

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