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  • #46
    Tenderloin,
    Not sure where you worked, but here at SFFD we have this little thing called "fast idle". It a great piece of technology [ sarcasm ] and it does not take us 5-7 minutes to bed the ladder and raise the jacks, even under conditions where wires are an issue as well as other complications that would further delay bedding the ladder and raising the jacks. Not saying were "all that" but when it comes to throwing the aerial with all the wires and other hazards, we know what were doing. Trust me when I say if Control says " stand by for the BOX " and then puts that truck on the box, that truck will be on the road in under 3 minutes. I've experienced that situation many times during drills.

    If you would like to pursue this further, set up an appointment with CD2, I'm sure he'd love to hear what you have to say or go to one of the Commission meetings and spew your concerns and watch their reactions. As far as what SJ or LA does or doesn't, that shouldn't have an impact on our ability to continue our tradition of helping the public in what you may call " unorthodox" ways while staying in service. Sorry your department wasn't able to multi-task by staying in service while doing a public assist. I'm so thankful we have concerned citizens like this in S.F. armed with fire service knowledge. [ sarcasm ]. Cant wait for your imput on high pressure hydrants, the 50, the johnson bar, cisterns, and leather helmets and what SJFD and LAFD has to say about them.
    Last edited by TheresOnlyone2; 10-15-2010, 03:37 AM.

    Comment


    • #47
      In Service Out of Service

      Sounds like TheresonlyOne 2 thinks that San Francisco's Johnson Bars are bigger than anyone else's.

      The SFFD honchos say it would take up to 5 minutes to bed the ladder and that's good enough for them to respond.

      If someone wanted to "brown out" a firehouse, there would be cries
      that response times will take 5 minutes longer and 300 seconds count.
      I would be shouting the same thing.

      What I'm saying is 5 minutes is 5 minutes anyway you look at it.

      Comment


      • #48
        as long as it stays in the district, I see no reason to take it out of service. even if it takes a minute to put the ladder down, the crew is already on it, and should have their gear ready to go. if it takes 2 or 3 minutes longer to get on scene, so be it.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
          I see Tenderloins point. But I don't see where putting it out of service is being responsible to the general public's safety.FM1
          I also agree. But it's not our responsibility to maintain adequate fire protection to the city. It's the administration's responsibility to maintain sufficient numbers in the field. If we're unavailable for a fire around the corner from my firehouse because we're on some public relations detail, it's not my fault.
          Our responsibility is to keep each other safe as possible despite their cuts.

          Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
          ..... We only have an incident started for, well, incidents....whereas it appears to be commonplace with JCFD.

          Regardless, I'm not taking my company out of service for something like this, nor would my BC approve of such.
          We make it an incident for two main reasons. First, as I mentioned above, is liability. If someone gets hurt I want to ensure there's no issue with someone saying it wasn't an authorized call so we shouldn't have been doing whatever it was when the injury occured. "The business administrator is not your friend". Second, it's showing an additional run. Productivity...sort of.

          As far as the BC. Just about all of these 'requests' go to him from the Deputy Chief who got a call from the Chief of Dept or usually the Directors office (pollitical appointment). As a company officer I have no choice but to eat the crap spooned down to me. All I can do is take care of my guys.
          Last edited by len1582; 10-15-2010, 05:30 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            "In Service Out of Service"

            Len1582 - thanks for this:

            "I also agree. But it's not our responsibility to maintain adequate fire protection to the city. It's the administration's responsibility to maintain sufficient numbers in the field. If we're unavailable for a fire around the corner from my firehouse because we're on some public relations detail, it's not my fault."

            In my example about the banner, would you be surprised that Headquarters
            of the Fire Dept. in San Francisco, was unaware that the Truck Co. was providing this service to the Church. Nor was Dispatch. No written request was needed.

            A member of the Truck Co crew was also a member of the Church. The entire deal was facilitated only by the Truck Co.

            The SFFD says "We are known for our emergency responses but are always willing to help our neighbors in any way. Many times these requests are done through the local Fire Stations."

            Now again, I'm an old goat but that practice of having 35 or 45 firehouses doing good deeds, while a headquarters is in the dark, is just crazy.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Tenderloin View Post
              Now again, I'm an old goat but that practice of having 35 or 45 firehouses doing good deeds, while a headquarters is in the dark, is just crazy.
              As long as they're in district and in service, what's crazy about it? You still sound like you've got an axe to grind.
              "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
              sigpic
              The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

              Comment


              • #52
                In Service Out of Service

                You've asked why I think it is crazy to have Independent fire stations within a big City F.D. from carrying out good will actions without the knowledge of a central authority?

                "As long as they're in district and in service, what's crazy about it?"

                On several of the comments above, firefighters have said that they check around with nearby units to see what's going on before they would raise an aerial in a non-emergency situation.

                A wise practice.

                Potentially, with all this good will going on in Frisco, and no central approval, two or three neigboring units could have a delayed response of three-five minutes, perhaps two of them in the same district.

                You not understanding that is as mystifying to me as you not understanding my failure to understand "in the district what's the problem" theory.

                I'm not claiming this is issue # 1 in America today. I am saying that professional firefighting isn't just about attacking the seat of the fire; it is also about what is taking place before the fire breaks out. Like training;
                care of equipment; maintaining first alarm assignments; none of that is
                headline material but it is important in the overall effectiveness of a F.D.
                I'm sure we can cordially agree to disagree.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Tenderloin View Post
                  You've asked why I think it is crazy to have Independent fire stations within a big City F.D. from carrying out good will actions without the knowledge of a central authority?
                  It's called not micromanaging. The notion that a company should have to ask permission or even notify HQ every time a stick is put in the air is absurd. Companies have officers and SOPs to make those routine local decisions.

                  A wise practice.
                  An unnecessary practice unless the stick is going to be unavailable for an unusual length of time.

                  Potentially, with all this good will going on in Frisco, and no central approval, two or three neigboring units could have a delayed response of three-five minutes, perhaps two of them in the same district.
                  There is central approval. That approval apparently permits the local officer's judgement to prevail.

                  Potentially, two or three neighboring crews could all decide to take a dump at the same time creating a delayed response. Should they coordinate bowel movements with HQ to insure that the all take turns?
                  "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                  sigpic
                  The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    In Service Out

                    Deputy:

                    Would you mind telling me the response goals of the Fire Department you are most familiar with?

                    The City of San Jose, CA has over a million people. It's a big City.

                    There stated response goal:
                    "We would put ourselves out of service. From the time of alarm, our goal is to have a response time of 5 minutes 90% of the time."

                    _________________
                    "Worry about rise in FDNY response time

                    BY PAUL H.B. SHIN
                    The Fire Department's average response time to building fires in Queens increased by three seconds last year to four minutes and 58 seconds — a backslide that has some anxious Queens residents seeing red.
                    But borough-by-borough figures released last week show that Queens trailed the citywide average by 31 seconds — an agonizing eternity when it comes to fighting a blaze.
                    ___________________

                    Do you think our problem of understanding one another (i.e. agreeing with) is a case of the different standards set, due to the different factors involved between the conditions and availability of equipment, of a large City as compared to a smaller one?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Tenderloin View Post
                      A member of the Truck Co crew was also a member of the Church. The entire deal was facilitated only by the Truck Co.

                      The SFFD says "We are known for our emergency responses but are always willing to help our neighbors in any way. Many times these requests are done through the local Fire Stations."
                      We'll also assist with local issues from within the house or battalion. I have no problem with that. I'll call our dispatcher and tell him to give up a ticket for a Service Call. It's the other stuff that annoys me. Like getting sent to a block party that actually turns out to be a rally for some council person running for re-election.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        At the department in my hometown, the fire alarm line crew bucket truck does it....

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Tenderloin View Post
                          You've asked why I think it is crazy to have Independent fire stations within a big City F.D. from carrying out good will actions without the knowledge of a central authority?

                          "As long as they're in district and in service, what's crazy about it?"

                          On several of the comments above, firefighters have said that they check around with nearby units to see what's going on before they would raise an aerial in a non-emergency situation.

                          A wise practice.

                          Potentially, with all this good will going on in Frisco, and no central approval, two or three neigboring units could have a delayed response of three-five minutes, perhaps two of them in the same district.

                          You not understanding that is as mystifying to me as you not understanding my failure to understand "in the district what's the problem" theory.

                          I'm not claiming this is issue # 1 in America today. I am saying that professional firefighting isn't just about attacking the seat of the fire; it is also about what is taking place before the fire breaks out. Like training;
                          care of equipment; maintaining first alarm assignments; none of that is
                          headline material but it is important in the overall effectiveness of a F.D.
                          I'm sure we can cordially agree to disagree.
                          Can't speak for SFFD. Around here ALL apparatus movements and details are radioed in to Dispatch. The Bosses USUALLY have prior notification of routine requests for service or details. Line officers CAN make emergency arrangements as needed to accomodate the rare "emergency" detail. worked well here for many,many years. T.c.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by nyckftbl View Post
                            when the hell did I hit 2000 posts? lol
                            You can always tell the guys who aren't allowed to talk at home....
                            I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                            "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                            "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              We don't designate it anything... if its got a crew, they will take the ladder down and respond.

                              If it doesn't have a crew (operator hanging xmas lights at the library for the Kiwanis club..etc). Then it will go back to the firehouse and crew up.

                              This is a really stupid topic, I have to say.
                              I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                              "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                              "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Tenderloin, Since you didn't mind dropping SFFD's name in this thread, would you mind telling us which department YOU worked for and how they would handle the same situation ? Just curious.
                                TheresOnlyone2

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