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  • "In Service" or "Out of service."

    Could anyone answer this question for me?

    If one of your aerial ladders which is in a large metropolitain area, is requested to perform a special service (i.e. not an emergency service) to assist say a Church with stringing a banner or hanging Christmas lights; and

    if it necessitates the use of the aerial and Jacks; does your Department place that aerial truck company

    in an "out of service" status or would you keep that Truck "in service" should an "emergency dispatch" occur?

    Could you very briefly explain your decision? Any citations on this point?


    Thank you so much,
    JT

  • #2
    Sounds like someone's department went OOS for a non-emergency event.

    We stay in service in case an emergency comes in. Not sure what more reason there is to give. I don't know what citations you're looking for, it's common sense.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tenderloin View Post
      Could anyone answer this question for me?

      If one of your aerial ladders which is in a large metropolitain area, is requested to perform a special service (i.e. not an emergency service) to assist say a Church with stringing a banner or hanging Christmas lights; and

      if it necessitates the use of the aerial and Jacks; does your Department place that aerial truck company

      in an "out of service" status or would you keep that Truck "in service" should an "emergency dispatch" occur?

      Could you very briefly explain your decision? Any citations on this point?


      Thank you so much,
      JT
      With companies being closed on a permanent basis or "browned out" for tours of duty... we can hardly afford to take a rig out of service to hang banners, Christmas lights, etc.
      ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
      Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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      • #4
        No different that training. Put the ladder down, pull in the jacks and run the call.
        Career Firefighter
        Volunteer Captain

        -Professional in Either Role-

        Originally posted by Rescue101
        I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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        • #5
          In service, delayed response, due to a PR event.
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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          • #6
            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
            In service, delayed response, due to a PR event.
            Ditto that.

            Depending on your dispatch arrangement you may want to alert them of your delayed response status.
            My wise and profound comments and opinions are mine alone and are in no way associated with any other individual or group.

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            • #7
              In Service Out of service

              The San Francisco Fire Department leaves their Aerial Truck Companies "in service" when they are hanging banners at Churches.

              That doesn't make any sense to me.

              I wrote to the San Jose, CA Chief of Department and this was his response:

              "We would put ourselves out of service. From the time of alarm, our goal is to have a response time of 5 minutes 90% of the time. With the aerial out of the bed and the ground jacks down we'd never make it. I believe it takes approximately 3 minutes to put everything back to normal.

              In the Fire Station we are to get out of the station in 60 seconds.
              If we make ourselves conditionally available (CAV, means you're out of service but can still respond) we are to respond within 3 minutes.
              If you cannot meet the criteria above, we put ourselves Not Available (NAV).
              If you need any further information please let me know."

              C.O.D.

              Anyone agree? Disagree?

              Comment


              • #8
                Depends on a variety of factors. Given just you've given, we'd probably be "on radio" for "community outreach" or a "service request", meaning for you in-service. (But here "in service" generally means functioning on a JOB.)

                We might also go "fire duty only" meaning no EMS runs; or OOS, which would require approval of chief or higher, possibly even a deputy commisioner. Kinda depends on who it's for (ie., how important to some politician), how the request came through channels (the higher up the request started the more likely to be OOS), amount of detail/technical dificulty the task/request involves, etc.

                That said, I don't recall anyone hanging Christmas lights/church banners, but can think of similar secular requests. And there was a recent article I saw about one of our engines being OOS to flow from a hydrant for a large baptism, while another nearby engine was browned out and the engine between the two had been closed last January. That raised both coverage issues and church/state issues for using city FD/apparatus/personnel for a religious service...
                Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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                • #9
                  In Service Out of Service

                  The LA Chief said this about aerials in or out of service.

                  " The answer to your question is that if a truck or engine company has equipment off of their vehicle for any reason such that they would have a delayed response, that company is placed out of service and unavailable to respond to emergencies. The reason for our practice is that we believe that our best chance to make a difference in an emergency and have the greatest potential for an incident to have a positive outcome is for our companies to arrive as quickly as possible. Our service level objective for the Department is to arrive at the scene of a reported emergency within 8 minutes, 80% of the time. If a company has put itself in a position that would require 20 minutes or more before it could begin responding, we think that allowing an emergency to continue uncontrolled for that amount of time (given your scenario) would be completely unacceptable. Please let me know if you have any other questions or need additional clarification."

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                  • #10
                    Like Mr.Pita said, depending on what it is we would either be fire duty only or out of service but more often then not its fire duty only.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok, this is all useful information. However I have to ask... who are you and what is your reason for asking? It's extremely unusual for some newbie to appear on here and start posting quotes from other departments and asking questioning in this manner. I'd like to know who we're talking to and what your motives are.

                      To answer your question, in a small rural volunteer department, it's always in service unless it is broken. Packing it up and leaving the event is necessary because the nearest unit to take it's place is 20 miles away. This means keeping yourself parked in a strategic manner so you can make a quick exit. And keeping the equipment your using in a condition where it can be put back on the truck (or left behind) immediately.
                      Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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                      • #12
                        While we're not a "large metropolitian" department, we will go "out of service" anytime our sticks are in the air. All that means is the CAD won't recognize them as in-service and recommend them for calls. They and the Batt Chief still monitor calls and they will go back into service in a hurry if needed.

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                        • #13
                          No ladder truck on my current department.

                          Previous volunteer department did have a ladder. If the aerial was up the truck was considered out of service. It wasn't a critical issue as there was always a mutual aid ladder rolling to every structural call (fire, alarm, report of smoke, etc) as part of the automatic mutual aid response plan. The officer would simply advise dispatch that we would be either not responding or responding delayed. In either case, another ladder would be dispatched from one of our mutual aid departments.

                          Generally speaking, if the call was simply an alarm or smoke investigation, and had a high probability of being a false call, we would continue the non-emergency assignment and let the replacement truck roll in. If it sounded significant, we would get back in service and often cancel the 3rd truck and have them standby at the closest station until the IC determined if they would be needed or not. If the 3rd truck was closer than us by the time we got back in service, they would go to the scene and we would move to the closest station.

                          All departments in the mutual aid plan followed the same procedures.

                          Here, if the tools are off the rescue truck for training, we call our neighboring department to respond in our place if it's in the eastern half of our district.
                          Train to fight the fires you fight.

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                          • #14
                            Not a ladder truck issue, but similar - a nearby city has within its boundries the county fairgrounds. During the county fair, there is an engine stationed there during the hours the fair is open. The engine companies rotate throughout the day.

                            There are only three engine companies, so rather than being placed "OOS," the engine at the fair goes "second alarm" - meaning they will end up rolling on working structure fires, but not for the myriad other calls that otherwise would have them responding.

                            One conundrum we hear on the radio all of the time here is "out of service, enroute," which seems to be out of synch - after all, if an apparatus is "OOS," why would it be on the response?

                            Back to the original question - but still not a ladder answer - we'll be doing fire prevention activities tomorrow, including our engine. The school is out of our first response district, but we'll be fully staffed and won't be putting the engine "out of service."

                            I don't believe the home department will mark any of their apparatus OOS, either, including their ladder.
                            Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                            Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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                            • #15
                              Public service detail,Available with delayed response. T.C.

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