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Firefighter Heading to Last Day of Work Saves 2 Kids

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  • #31
    I don't care what LAFireEducator does. I don't agree with his attitude. Whatever.

    What I do love is when someone posts about an off duty rescue, the clock starts ticking for someone to try and goad LAFire into the conversation. Then when he shows up, it's all "what are you doing here. You're not a real fireman!" Then it's the contest to see who can make themselves look the toughest on the internet by puffing their chest out and belittling a guy they have never met, will never have to work with, and will never be working near them. Hell, after reading about the way people around the country work and what they consider fires they wouldn't fight, the "coward card" could be thrown on at least half of you. You all hide behind safety just as much as LAFire does, but he just admits it out loud. He deserves credit for not being afraid to say it like it is, instead of throwing out all the code words - "fully involved", 2 in/ 2out, and blah, blah, blah. I fully believe these stories are posted not for informational purposes, but only to draw out LA so that the compensating...uh, I mean criticizing...can begin. Now back to your "I'm braver than you" party.
    Last edited by Whocares; 10-12-2010, 08:27 AM.
    Just a typical moronic, childish, idiotic munchkin.

    Comment


    • #32
      Most of your post is crap FWD, and you know it.

      If it were up to you, you would pull up on scene with light smoke showing, and ask a person hanging from a window "Are your smoke detectors working? No? Ok we're outta here." Why can't you just admit you are a coward? Wouldn't it be so much easier than all this back-pedaling and story telling?

      This part though is an especially brutal twisting of my words, The fact is people are responsible for their own safety, especially when it comes to fire. There are those who refuse to do something as simple and cheap as buying and installing smoke detectors, yet they expect us to take unreasonable risks when the crap hits the fan, all because they didn't take care of their own business.

      And by the way, I don't ask, but many times it's obvious that there wasn't any early warning based on fire conditions.

      No, I will not watch my guys get so banged up they can't work, or even die, because the public has not taken responsibility for tier own safety. Yes, I will and expect my crew to take reasonable risks for life, when there is a known or possible life hazard, but I will not watch them limp to the hospital or ride in a hearse, especially for a structure that is more than likely unoccupied with little, if any value. The fact is every department has differing abilities, and what is an reasonable risk to one department may be quite unreasonable to others.

      We have an obligation to the public to do what we can, but that obligation does not override our primary responsibility, which is to go home to our families after every shift and every volunteer response without a stop in the hospital.

      Call me what you want. Nobody I have ever worked with has called me a coward. My crew comes first. They will go home basically unhurt after every call. Their families expect nothing less. And yes, we are more important than the public.
      Last edited by LaFireEducator; 10-12-2010, 09:41 AM.
      Train to fight the fires you fight.

      Comment


      • #33
        The cap made a great save! It should be commended and discussed.

        It's too bad 90% of this thread isn't about that. We know LA's thoughts and we know most normal folks don't agree.. Why do we have to go down that road in every thread.

        Seriously. The second F'n post wasn't about the save, it was about LA..
        So you call this your free country
        Tell me why it costs so much to live
        -3dd

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        • #34
          Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
          Interesting as you know nothing of my organization.

          Actually, they have quite a bit of both. At times, I wish they had a little bit less than they do.
          Actually... we do... you have posted more than enough information....
          ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
          Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

          Comment


          • #35
            Nice job there Captain Stone regardless of what others might think.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by voyager9 View Post
              The cap made a great save! It should be commended and discussed.

              It's too bad 90% of this thread isn't about that. We know LA's thoughts and we know most normal folks don't agree.. Why do we have to go down that road in every thread.

              Seriously. The second F'n post wasn't about the save, it was about LA..
              Hey, I didn't chime in until I was attacked by FWD. Again.

              Let's all make a simple deal ... I won't comment on these types of threads if I'm not mentioned.

              Honestly, I don't give a rat's *** what any firefighter decides to do or not do off-duty without PPE, a handline and the other tools of the trade. I have a family and an income to worry about, and we don't have a union standing behind us (by choice, thank god) for financial support. If a member chooses to take an action of duty I won't support or condemn them as it's thier choice and thier choice alone.

              It's honestly that simple. Keep me out of it and I won't say a damn word, even if the rookies here need to know the poetential price of off-duty heroics.
              Train to fight the fires you fight.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                It's honestly that simple. Keep me out of it and I won't say a damn word, even if the rookies here need to know the poetential price of off-duty heroics.
                Even the rookies here know whats on the line and why we do what we do. You're the only one that doesn't care.
                Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
                  Honestly, I don't give a rat's *** what any firefighter decides to do or not do off-duty without PPE, a handline and the other tools of the trade. I have a family and an income to worry about, and we don't have a union standing behind us (by choice, thank god) for financial support. If a member chooses to take an action of duty I won't support or condemn them as it's thier choice and thier choice alone.

                  It's honestly that simple. Keep me out of it and I won't say a damn word, even if the rookies here need to know the poetential price of off-duty heroics.
                  What about on-duty heroics, with proper PPE, handlines and tools of the trade? Still only allowed to be yard birds?
                  "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by FWDbuff View Post
                    What about on-duty heroics, with proper PPE, handlines and tools of the trade? Still only allowed to be yard birds?
                    Hard to beleive but we fight fire via interior operations in structures where there may be lives and the building has value, which is over 90% of our structures.

                    There are times that I feel we are too aggressive and should be operating exterior operations only, but that is the call of the IC at the time.

                    The only time we do not make an interior attack are on structures that are truly fully involved, have been deemed to be unsafe during pre-fire inspections or on buildings, that in the judgement of the initial commander appear to be abandoned either due to condition or other external factors. As discussed before, the likelhood of anyone being in such a structure is minimal and does not justify the risk to our personnel operating interior. It's simply a risk management policy that affects one structural fire every 2.5 years. Many here disagree with that but there are times that you simply have to play the percentages for the safety of your staff.

                    As far as herorics, it depends on how you define it. What would be a routine structural attack on my full-time combo department may be a high-risk structural attack (depending on who is responding) on my volunteer department due to a lesser degree of experience, and yes, training opportunties.

                    A department should never make an interior attack if there is any doubt about internal factors such as manpower, experience or training, or external factors such as building construction, building condition or water supply, even if there are civilian lives on the line. Every officer needs to know the limitations of his department and his men, and needs to accept the fact that he must work within those limits now matter the circumstances of the response. Our health and safety is simply too important not too.

                    There is really no point in discussing this any further.
                    Train to fight the fires you fight.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      There is really no point in discussing this any further.
                      You're right... you have embarrased yourself enough on this thread!
                      ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                      Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Whocares View Post
                        I don't care what LAFireEducator does. I don't agree with his attitude. Whatever.

                        What I do love is when someone posts about an off duty rescue, the clock starts ticking for someone to try and goad LAFire into the conversation. Then when he shows up, it's all "what are you doing here. You're not a real fireman!" Then it's the contest to see who can make themselves look the toughest on the internet by puffing their chest out and belittling a guy they have never met, will never have to work with, and will never be working near them. Hell, after reading about the way people around the country work and what they consider fires they wouldn't fight, the "coward card" could be thrown on at least half of you. You all hide behind safety just as much as LAFire does, but he just admits it out loud. He deserves credit for not being afraid to say it like it is, instead of throwing out all the code words - "fully involved", 2 in/ 2out, and blah, blah, blah. I fully believe these stories are posted not for informational purposes, but only to draw out LA so that the compensating...uh, I mean criticizing...can begin. Now back to your "I'm braver than you" party.
                        WTF are you talking about? This has absolutely nothing to do with safety on the job and everything to do with a self-professed firefighter who stated that he would do nothing...nothing...to save a child trapped in a burning vehicle, in spite of the fact that regular joes were laying it down to do so. And he took this position not because of any real safety related issue, but because of some career firefighter hating rage that he parades at any and every chance he gets.

                        You don't like it when we bust his balls? Tough; nobody appointed you forum detective.
                        Member IACOJ

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          As far as herorics, it depends on how you define it. What would be a routine structural attack on my full-time combo department may be a high-risk structural attack (depending on who is responding) on my volunteer department due to a lesser degree of experience, and yes, training opportunties.




                          If they don't have the training or experience then they shouldn't even be in that position, period. Train them to the "standard" or cut them loose.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post

                            This part though is an especially brutal twisting of my words, The fact is people are responsible for their own safety, especially when it comes to fire. There are those who refuse to do something as simple and cheap as buying and installing smoke detectors, yet they expect us to take unreasonable risks when the crap hits the fan, all because they didn't take care of their own business.
                            I know we've been down this road before, but the bold statement really strikes a chord with me.

                            Is that not our job? To save people? To see people at their worst, and do everything we can to help them? Sure, people don't have smoke detectors. But you know what? There are some people that can't afford smoke detectors. Hell, there are some people that can't afford to eat. So, because someone is on dire financial times, you're going to punish them for being "lazy" or "refusing" to buy a smoke detector when in reality they can't afford it?

                            I've tried, I've tried countless times to see your point of view, but I just can't do it. I don't understand how you think it's not our job to take risks, to go into dangerous situations, to HELP PEOPLE WHO NEED HELP. I just can't wrap my mind around it. All my life, fireman have been the heroes. The people who show up when they're needed, no questions asked, at 4am or 4pm. The people who run into burning buildings while everyone else runs out. The people who risk their lives to save the life of an 8month old baby, or an 80 year old woman, or a 17 year old kid... On or off duty. Day or night.

                            "The funny thing about fireman.. Day or night, they're always fireman." I know it's only a quote from a movie, but I thought that was something most real firefighters believed in? That day or night, on or off duty, PPE or no PPE, if someone needed help, they would do anything in their power to help. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's not the majority anymore. Who knows. All I know, is that I intend to do everything in my power, day or night, on or off duty, PPE or No PPE, to help someone who needs it. Car accident, fire, whatever.


                            Anyway, nice save Brother. What a way to end a career.
                            "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

                            "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Captain Stone is still awesome and it was still a great grab not matter what anyone says or what opinion you might have.

                              The rest just doesn't matter.


                              GOOD JOB!!!
                              Jason Knecht
                              Firefighter/EMT
                              Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                              Eau Claire, WI

                              IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                              http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                              EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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                              • #45
                                I agree that by post #2 this thread turned from congratulating a guy for a great save on his last day on the job, to a thread dedicated to bitching about one guy who would not do the same.

                                Focusing on what LaFire would or would not do just takes away from the congratulations that are due to the Cap.
                                "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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