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  • #16
    Fyredup wrote...

    Would you not have your children sit by a campfire (are you SURE it's only wood that's burning? No pesticides, paint, plastic wrappers....)

    Or vinyl or nylon or plastic or insulation or household chemicals or any other of the myriad of by-products of a structure or vehicle fire that have no comparison at all to a campfire. Really this is a silly comparison that has nothing to do with what bunker gear is exposed to.


    Your turnouts aren't actively expelling large quantities of who knows what. A campfire is. It is definately a valid comparison when we are talking potentialy harmful exposures to toxins.

    I'm just trying to put a little perspective on this subject. Like I said, it's an interesting research paper but there are far more hazards we expose ourselves to daily with nary a word.

    Fyredup also wrote...

    "Would you not have your children with you when you're stuck in traffic breathing exhaust fumes from hundreds of vehicles some of wich may not be up to emissions standards?

    Dude, if this is all you have you really are stretching.


    Really? You put your nasty-*** turnouts in a room and measure the amount of nasties compared to the number of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide as well as particulates from the ever increasing number of diesel's on the road in a congested area with no wind and I guarantee you'd go into your turnout room for some fresh air.

    robs411 wrote...

    "To those that compared a camp fire/BBQ grill to a structure fire: I ask would you make smores from the burning car or house fire you last fought? I sincerely hope not."

    Of course not. But I wouldn't let my kid lick my turnouts either.
    My wise and profound comments and opinions are mine alone and are in no way associated with any other individual or group.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
      The simple fact is we are exposed to those by-products, we are responsible for washing our gear after it is exposed. The difference is we signed up or volunteered to be a firefighter and we understand and accept the risks. To be so cavalier about exposing your loved ones is beyond negligent all the way to stupid. I prefer to keep my family safe by not exposing them at all.

      Anyone who would seriously compare a BBQ, or a campfire, to the by-products of a structure fire, or carfire, is either completely ill informed about fire by-products or someone that is delusional about the dangers involved. Of course charcoal and wood have combustion by products...do they compare to the witches brew of a structure fire or car fire? Not a chance.
      No one compared a BBQ or campfire to a structure\vehicle fire.


      The comparison is an active BBQ or campfire or multiple vehicle exhausts to the potential residual toxins in your turnouts. Pay attention.

      But hey, that's just my opinion
      Last edited by Blulakr; 10-11-2010, 11:40 PM.
      My wise and profound comments and opinions are mine alone and are in no way associated with any other individual or group.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by robs411 View Post
        I want to thank those that contributed to this thread. I have completed my research paper draft.

        Some may think I suffer from paranoia but sleep comfortably, it was a required assignment for a college course.

        To those that compared a camp fire/BBQ grill to a structure fire: I ask would you make smores from the burning car or house fire you last fought? I sincerely hope not.

        The mocho-man attitude of having the dirtiest gear in the department, is “old school” thinking. At the end of my report I concentrate heavily on the education or lack there-of. Some traditions we need to keep, others we need to learn to let go.

        A day of moving your gear from station to station is one thing, thirty years of using it for an arm rest in your pick-up truck to impress your friends is another.

        Just use common sense, after a fire wash your gear, properly.
        That's all well and fine IF: You have a spare set of gear and are in a Company of light to moderate run load. NOT practical or even doable for some of the busier companies. Gear left in your car/pickup really isn't good for the gear either. Yes it's a necessity when you are house hopping. T.C.

        Comment


        • #19
          What kind of whacker needs to bring their gear home and sit in the kitchen? WTF? Im sure your family knows you vollie, so who you trying to impress, some dopey door to door salesperson?
          My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
          "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
          George Mason
          Co-author of the Second Amendment
          during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
          Elevator Rescue Information

          Comment


          • #20
            It seems like someone did a similar study at one time (Pheonix maybe?). They checked gear after a fire with haz-mat equipment to see if there was any quantity of residual fumes, gasses, etc. coming off of it in the storage areas.

            As I recall, the amount of off-gassing was so significant they implemented a policy that upon return to the station after a fire, all personnel were to get their back-up gear (they were allotted two sets), wash the gear they just wore, and had to shower and change uniforms prior to going back into service.

            The crap we get into in fires is nasty and full of any variety of chemicals that can kill, be it immediately or 20 years down the road. Why put ourselves, let alone our families, at any more risk than we have to?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
              It seems like someone did a similar study at one time (Pheonix maybe?). They checked gear after a fire with haz-mat equipment to see if there was any quantity of residual fumes, gasses, etc. coming off of it in the storage areas.

              As I recall, the amount of off-gassing was so significant they implemented a policy that upon return to the station after a fire, all personnel were to get their back-up gear (they were allotted two sets), wash the gear they just wore, and had to shower and change uniforms prior to going back into service.

              The crap we get into in fires is nasty and full of any variety of chemicals that can kill, be it immediately or 20 years down the road. Why put ourselves, let alone our families, at any more risk than we have to?
              While I agree with your position it simply can't be right because Blulakr says your fire exposed turnout gear is no more dangerous than a camp fire or a BBQ grill. Apparently he doesn't believe in research and emprical data to the opposite of his view point.

              The funny part is I couldn't possibly care less what HE does with his gear. He can put it in his kid's room if he wishes. But to expouse the ridiculous viewpoint on an international forum that his fire exposed gear is not dangerous must be combatted by those of us that know better.
              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

              Comment


              • #22
                Blulakr,

                Pay me the common courtesy of making it clear when you are quoting what quotes are MINE and what quotes are your irrelevant posts. Or please don't quote me at all.



                Originally posted by Blulakr View Post
                Fyredup wrote...

                Would you not have your children sit by a campfire (are you SURE it's only wood that's burning? No pesticides, paint, plastic wrappers....)

                I did write this! Or vinyl or nylon or plastic or insulation or household chemicals or any other of the myriad of by-products of a structure or vehicle fire that have no comparison at all to a campfire. Really this is a silly comparison that has nothing to do with what bunker gear is exposed to.
                Your turnouts aren't actively expelling large quantities of who knows what. A campfire is. It is definately a valid comparison when we are talking potentialy harmful exposures to toxins.

                I'm just trying to put a little perspective on this subject. Like I said, it's an interesting research paper but there are far more hazards we expose ourselves to daily with nary a word.

                Fyredup also wrote...

                "Would you not have your children with you when you're stuck in traffic breathing exhaust fumes from hundreds of vehicles some of wich may not be up to emissions standards?

                I wrote this too! Dude, if this is all you have you really are stretching.


                Really? You put your nasty-*** turnouts in a room and measure the amount of nasties compared to the number of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide as well as particulates from the ever increasing number of diesel's on the road in a congested area with no wind and I guarantee you'd go into your turnout room for some fresh air.

                robs411 wrote...

                "To those that compared a camp fire/BBQ grill to a structure fire: I ask would you make smores from the burning car or house fire you last fought? I sincerely hope not."

                Of course not. But I wouldn't let my kid lick my turnouts either.
                Last edited by FyredUp; 10-12-2010, 02:39 PM.
                Crazy, but that's how it goes
                Millions of people living as foes
                Maybe it's not too late
                To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
                  It seems like someone did a similar study at one time (Pheonix maybe?). They checked gear after a fire with haz-mat equipment to see if there was any quantity of residual fumes, gasses, etc. coming off of it in the storage areas.

                  As I recall, the amount of off-gassing was so significant they implemented a policy that upon return to the station after a fire, all personnel were to get their back-up gear (they were allotted two sets), wash the gear they just wore, and had to shower and change uniforms prior to going back into service.

                  The crap we get into in fires is nasty and full of any variety of chemicals that can kill, be it immediately or 20 years down the road. Why put ourselves, let alone our families, at any more risk than we have to?
                  Can you cite the study? Without proof, all it is is your memory and what you think the study found.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Blulakr View Post
                    No one compared a BBQ or campfire to a structure\vehicle fire.

                    Yes, you did. You compared the combustion by-products of a structure fire to those of a BBQ or campfire. To be even more ludicrous you sugested that a campfire would have the possibility of pesticides, plastics, or paint on the logs being burned. Maybe in your world, not in mine.


                    The comparison is an active BBQ or campfire or multiple vehicle exhausts to the potential residual toxins in your turnouts. Pay attention.

                    I did pay attention. While of course there are by-products in a campfire or BBQ that you shouldn't be under constant exposure to, they also aren't the witches brew of toxic smoke and gases that your gear, and you, were exposed to in a structure fire.

                    Vehicle exhaust of course is toxic. What to do about it ina traffic jam is an interesting topic for another time, and another place where it may be relelvant to the topic.


                    But hey, that's just my opinion

                    Thank goodness for that. At least you chose the path you understand. No facts, no basis for your choice to put contamintaed PPE in your home, just smoke and mirrors and topic expansion to include the ludicrous.



                    Do have a nice day...
                    Crazy, but that's how it goes
                    Millions of people living as foes
                    Maybe it's not too late
                    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Blulakr View Post
                      Yep.

                      Not that this isn't an interesting research subject but I think we may be a little paranoid here.


                      Would you not have your children sit by a campfire (are you SURE it's only wood that's burning? No pesticides, paint, plastic wrappers....)

                      Would you not have your children with you when you're stuck in traffic breathing exhaust fumes from hundreds of vehicles some of wich may not be up to emissions standards?

                      What about charcoal barbeques?? On and on......

                      I wouldn't allow my children to play on or around my dirty bunker gear either but to not allow them to be in the same room\building seems a little silly. While I'm on call mine often sit in a corner by the kitchen door.


                      What he said, he shouldn't be denying it!

                      Maybe they do kind of stuff at in California, eh?
                      Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                      Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        When I was on vacation in Northern California, I stopped by one of Cal Fire's relatively new firehouses in Mariposa County to see if they had patches or T shirts for sale. I noticed that the apparatus and the living quarters were in separate buildings, and I asked the OIC why that was...

                        He stated that due to the possibility of contamination from bunker gear, the living areas were placed in two separate structures.

                        Now.. why in whatever deity one chooses to or not to believe in would one expose your family to the crap we encounter?
                        Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 10-12-2010, 07:28 PM. Reason: spelling correction
                        ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                        Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by SPFDRum View Post
                          What kind of whacker needs to bring their gear home and sit in the kitchen? WTF? Im sure your family knows you vollie, so who you trying to impress, some dopey door to door salesperson?
                          Our officers regularly rotate duty. We are on call for 24 hrs a day for 3 days (usually weekends). We bring home the utility pickup and our gear and we respond from home. It's faster to put turnout pants on and resopond than to put shoes on, respond, take shoes off and put turnouts on at the scene.
                          My wise and profound comments and opinions are mine alone and are in no way associated with any other individual or group.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
                            When I was on vacation in Northern California, I stopped by one of Cal Fire's relatively new firehouses in Mariposa County to see if they had patches or T shirts for sale. I noticed that the apprataus and the living quarters were in separate buildings, and I asked the OIC why that was...

                            He stated that due to the possibility of contamination from bunker gear, the living areas were placed in two separate structures.

                            Now.. why in whatever deity one chooses to or not to believe in would one expose your family to the crap we encounter?
                            Multiple sets of turnouts all exposed at once and all stored in the same area immediately following a structure fire is a hazard and is not what we're talking about here.
                            My wise and profound comments and opinions are mine alone and are in no way associated with any other individual or group.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Blulakr View Post
                              Multiple sets of turnouts all exposed at once and all stored in the same area immediately following a structure fire is a hazard and is not what we're talking about here.
                              wow, somthing i didnt think about. i put my gear in my jeep (the back) and clean them the nights i go to the tec center for class. then put them back in the jeep and back on the rack next to another guys bunkers that who knows when they been cleaned... gonna start bagging them before i put them in my jeep, and go clean my jeep!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                First Let me start by saying I am all for safety and keeping my wife safe.

                                I never bring my gear into the house not because of the exposure risk. She would simpily kick my ***** for bringing that "smelly nasty stuff into the house." haha

                                Back to the topic at hand. Does anybody have any documentation on secoundary exsposure to turn out gear. So far all I have read personnal recommendations.

                                If it is that bad to bring into you home (once again idk why you would) then why do we:

                                ride with it in the crew compartment in the truck
                                Wear it on every call (even when Fire protection is not needed) why not have usar gear for MVA etc.

                                How about those AFA's in homes. We tromp through every room of their house in it.

                                I know that common sense is not to common anymore however if it is so bad that you change clothes and never let anybody touch your gear. Then why are you wearing it?

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