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  • #16
    Originally posted by TRUCK61 View Post
    The difference between wearing your pack and not is the changing of the center of gravity on your body.
    Oh, please.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    • #17
      You should wear SCBA all interior fire attacks, roof operations, and overhaul.
      Jason Knecht
      Firefighter/EMT
      Township Fire Dept., Inc.
      Eau Claire, WI

      IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
      http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
      EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

      Comment


      • #18
        are we saying packs or face piece? I always wear my pack getting off the truck. When I'm not the roof I don't have my face piece on unless there are heavy smoke conditions. Usually there is some smoke, but you can breath. Yea I might fall through the roof, yea I might fall off, yea a lot of things could happen. I'd rather have full vision while on the roof so thats one vote against the mask. On the flipside, many of us don't have the luxury of cutting a hole, coming down and admiring our work. You cut the hole, then you do another task which may involve going interior. Using up good air on the roof, would delay that second task.

        I know smoke is bad to breath, but come on. Don't be a fireman if you can't handle smelling smoke without going on air. I'm not trying to be macho and walk about when its banked down, but light smoke shouldn't be such a big deal.
        Last edited by nameless; 10-08-2010, 06:23 PM.

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        • #19
          .......................
          Last edited by Deluge059; 08-10-2011, 04:34 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dickey View Post
            You should wear SCBA all interior fire attacks, roof operations, and overhaul.
            Let me be perfectly clear with myself....

            You should wear SCBA, breathing the air from the SCBA while performing all interior fire attacks, roof operations, and overhaul. Yes, roof operations to be breathing air because you never know when you might enter an IDLH atmosphere such as falling through the roof like in the videos.

            At the very least, wearing your mask so you can click in very fast.
            Jason Knecht
            Firefighter/EMT
            Township Fire Dept., Inc.
            Eau Claire, WI

            IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
            http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
            EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

            Comment


            • #21
              always and never are really stupid words, especially in the fire service.
              Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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              • #22
                the fire videos all depicted fire that had already vented itself, and for christ sake there was 5-6 guys on the roof already in the first one...anyways eastkyff, i'm sorry for your loss, that is an all kinds of messed up situation, BUT that is one of the things one of the guys were saying; if i got up there with a pack, and fall through right in the *crap*, its probably not going to matter if i had my pack on... as for wearing your mask, breathing air on the roof from the get go, and even throughout the opening of the hole, i can tell you that isn't a debate, that is NOT going to happen around my parts. That is where this debate came from, the pack wearing on the roof around me is pretty much for the possibility of falling through the roof only, not really for smoke conditions on the roof. And it must be said that on a peaked roof,adding the weight, bulk, and just plain more awkwardness of a pack, presents a real danger in itself compared to the better mobility and agility of not having a pack on. Flat roof I can understand more since there really isn't an excuse for not having on, unless you're just trying to look like mr tough guy without the pack on.
                "The third reason we are fighting is because men like to fight. They always have and they always will. Some sophists and other crackpots deny that. They don't know what they're talking about. They are either goddamned fools or cowards, or both. Men like to fight, and if they don't they're not real men. "-Gen. George S. Patton

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                • #23
                  oh yeah and that last video....Ive seen that video a dozen of times, that guy is a complete idiot....you bring your helmet, pants/boots, and an axe- what? just figured you didn't need the coat??? Out of all the things i would have brought, #1 woulda been a coat, then the helmet, then boots/pants. He probably woulda had minor facial burns if he had the friggin coat on. just had to say that cuz like i said, he's an idiot.
                  "The third reason we are fighting is because men like to fight. They always have and they always will. Some sophists and other crackpots deny that. They don't know what they're talking about. They are either goddamned fools or cowards, or both. Men like to fight, and if they don't they're not real men. "-Gen. George S. Patton

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ravage17 View Post
                    ...that is NOT going to happen around my parts...
                    I heard there's a lot that doesn't happen around your parts.
                    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Really, this is a topic for debate? It's 2010, if your not wearing your gear your an idiot. I'll bet if you fall through the roof you'll wish you were on air!
                      If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

                      Lieutenant

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Firemedic 61 View Post
                        Really, this is a topic for debate? It's 2010, if your not wearing your gear your an idiot. I'll bet if you fall through the roof you'll wish you were on air!
                        http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...74#post1212074
                        Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I like this one to be my choice. We require SCBA be worn, but conditions dictate whether or not I use(d) a mask. Yeah, yeah, smoke and fire bad, I get it. So is falling off the edge of roof, or stepping into a skylight, and generally missing the signs of danger in your immediate vicinity. Masks often fog up and reduce visibility, narrow your view, throw off your equilibrium and make it harder to work. Most guys can get more work done, far faster with just the mask off. Risky? OK, yes. But if you're counting on that mask staying on as you fall into the building, you're putting a lot of faith into a low chance of success. Not to mention the reason you fell through may be that you missed the warning signs.

                          Obviously the next progression is that if your not wearing the mask, then why change your center of gravity with the pack at all? We require them to be sure you can work when the smoke banks down or changes direction any.

                          Far too many FD's rely on absolute rules, instead of training and ensuring members are comfortable with the tasks they're assigned. Take a kid who before rookie class, didn't know how to even start a saw, never climbed a ladder or walked a roof and obviously never worn SCBA and stick him on the roof at 3 a.m. and tell him to make the cut? How many times has he been on the roof mock-up? Three, Four, Six? Isn't ventilation pretty freaking important? Yet this is the norm all too frequently.
                          Last edited by RFDACM02; 10-09-2010, 09:14 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ravage17 View Post
                            And it must be said that on a peaked roof,adding the weight, bulk, and just plain more awkwardness of a pack, presents a real danger in itself compared to the better mobility and agility of not having a pack on.
                            That's why we drill the way we work. If you can't work on a pitched roof wearing a pack, you haven't prepared well enough to be out on the job just yet.

                            I'm getting the impression you didn't get the answer you were looking for, rookie...
                            "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                            sigpic
                            The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
                              I like this one to be my choice. We require SCBA be worn, but conditions dictate whether or not I use(d) a mask. Yeah, yeah, smoke and fire bad, I get it. So is falling off the edge of roof, or stepping into a skylight, and generally missing the signs of danger in your immediate vicinity.
                              Masks that make skylights invisible aren't NFPA approved, anymore.
                              Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by nyckftbl View Post
                                always and never are really stupid words, especially in the fire service.
                                Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.
                                DixieFire53, Deputy Fire Chief FF/EMT-P, Local 272

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