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News story: Experts Reconsider Elevator as Fire Escape

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  • #31
    What is Fred wrong about? Elevator service and reliability in projects is just that, horse****. You expect anything else from the lowest bid and a severe shortage of inspectors? We aren't but a pimple on a gnat's *** when it comes to the number of elevators compared to New York, but the problem is epidemic. Though budget cuts in the inspection department here are starting to create some serious concerns. Even wealthy co-ops, where the purse strings are controlled by committee, you can barely get them to pay for a dedicated phone line, let alone service and testing.
    My statement is elevators could be a feasible means of egress for hi-rise buildings. But as it stands now, there are no building codes in place that would make even new construction viable. So I can guarantee there will be no retro-fitting.
    Stairs aren't the great savior either. How many times have you heard of people going up to their doom? Any solution you develop is still going to have one giant handicap-humans.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

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    • #32
      Ok let the experts test their theory. If it works fine, of course testing will have to be in real conditions such as panicing people, fire fighters trying to come up and elevators working properly.

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      • #33
        No no. They just do some tests on a computer. It looks like it will work on paper so it will be fine. Since we all know everything goes according to written theory when a building is on fire and hundreds of panicing crazy people are stampeeding.
        Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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        • #34
          Firefighters have been killed too.....I still have the newspaper clipping (I knew him).....
          Fallen White Plains Firefighter Is Buried
          Published: March 2, 1993

          . .This item appeared in the paper as a stand alone photograph. Caption information is provided below.

          Photo: Scores of firefighters were on hand at the Bethel Baptist Church in White Plains yesterday for the funeral of Warren R. Ogburn, who died battling a blaze in a 12-story apartment building on Wednesday. A veteran of 11 years in the department, he was found unconscious in an elevator. The coffin carrying the body of the 39-year-old firefighter was placed on a fire truck outside the church en route to the burial. (Susan Harris for The New York Times)
          At work, we do use elevators for the evacuation of people who cannot use stairs to evacuate - HOWEVER that is after the situation has been checked to make sure there is no apparent issue with using an elevator. One advantage we have here is being on scene usually within 5 minutes of an alarm coming in, AND having systems that will 'track' the progress of a fire/smoke condition - computerized floor plans will show what heads and where are active on a given floor or floors.....not in every building that we cover (yet) but getting there.

          If I was faced with a situation where my floor was on fire, I sure as heck would find a way to get at least a floor below the fire floor - even if I had to ride piggyback on someone, or sit on my butt and inch myself down step by step.....

          Another thing to consider with elevator lobbies (existing at least) - how many renovations, etc have been done over time, and has the fire rating been maintained for those areas?.......what about smoke control.....just this morning I smelled burned food on a floor BELOW the floor the cooking incident occurred - right in the elevator lobby!...the odor went right into the shaft and into the building.....

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          • #35
            Elevator use during a fire?

            No sir, don't like it.....don't like it at all. I even get nervous having the firefighters change it to firefighter mode to use it.

            I think the key thing to remember is that all elevators need electricity. If this is shut off, or the electronic parts of the elevator system are compromised, (which sounds like it isn't that hard to do) then they should not be used by us, and even more reason not to be used by the public.
            Jason Knecht
            Firefighter/EMT
            Township Fire Dept., Inc.
            Eau Claire, WI

            IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
            http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
            EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dickey View Post
              Elevator use during a fire?

              No sir, don't like it.....don't like it at all. I even get nervous having the firefighters change it to firefighter mode to use it.

              I think the key thing to remember is that all elevators need electricity. If this is shut off, or the electronic parts of the elevator system are compromised, (which sounds like it isn't that hard to do) then they should not be used by us, and even more reason not to be used by the public.
              For this to take hold, there will need to be UPS(uninterruptible power supplies) like are used with computer servers at those elevators deemed worthy of use in an evacuation. These elevators will need to be reserved first for those with mobility impairments. Modern elevator control systems can be, and are in some places, integrated with the alarm system so as to not stop on a fire floor, and in fact not go through a fire floor. The technology does exist for this to work and I know that many will say that technology fails, which is also true. But, in larger buildings we have seen that there might not be other choices.

              As Fred said, we will be using the elevators to shuttle men and gear up, the elevator will be going up if it is running. There is no reason why we should not put someone in a wheelchair back on for the return to pick up more gear and men. Do we really want folks slowing up the egress of otherwise able people by using stairchairs for those who can't walk down when we can load those folks into the still functioning elevator?
              Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
              -Big Russ

              Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

              Originally posted by nyckftbl
              LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
                For this to take hold, there will need to be UPS(uninterruptible power supplies) like are used with computer servers at those elevators deemed worthy of use in an evacuation.
                Ok, I'll give you the UPS but if the computer chip or computer brain that runs it melts or gets damaged by fire you are SOL anyway regardless of how much electricity you have.

                The only way to be 100% certain an elevator will not fail is a UPS and a brain/control box that is fireproofed some how. And even then, that's not saying the cables or other hardware have not been compromised by heat.

                I also understand that it just isn't practical to walk 40 floors when the elevator works. It is the lesser of the two evils!
                Jason Knecht
                Firefighter/EMT
                Township Fire Dept., Inc.
                Eau Claire, WI

                IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
                http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
                EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
                  Someone already invented that... Bossier Parish, LA!
                  And Iced Tea just got spit all over the monitor again
                  Bill Davis
                  West Harrison Fire Dept
                  2009 Rookie of the Year
                  www.westharrisonfire.com
                  IACOJ Rookie-We all gotta start somewhere

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