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  • Resume Killer

    Hypothetically Of Course

    You are looking at hiring a kid with Some Good experience, Already trained to FF1-2, EMTB, NWCG Engine Boss, Driving Record is even Crystal Clear,Young and Eager to go to work

    But........He has a assault charge on his record. Now what kinda wrench does that throw into your hiring gears?
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

  • #2
    Depends on who he is up against. If the rest of the applicants have similar (or even slightly less) qualification, and yet have sparkling backgrounds, I'm going to go with the sparkling background virtually every time. Same goes for DUIs. Now, if this person with the record is up against a bunch of unqualified people, and his indiscretion is in the fairly distant past, I would say he's not unhirable.

    Comment


    • #3
      Like everything else, the answer is: It depends.....

      How many other equally qualified and eager people are applying?

      I assume it is not a felony assault charge? Simle assault as opposed to aggrivated assult.

      How long ago was it?

      If you want to give the kid a shot, look into the arrest and see what you can find out. Technically, you can have someone arrested for touching you if you file a complaint with the ploice and press charges.

      IMO, it comes down to this: Do you want to give the guy a chance or let a simple assault charge penalize the kid for the rest of his life.
      RK
      cell #901-494-9437

      Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

      "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


      Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

      Comment


      • #4
        Looking over several on-line definitions, "assault" doesn't necessarily mean actual physical contact. That's "battery." Assault means an actual threat of violence of which the intended victim is aware and which it appears may be carried out.

        You also used the term "charge" as opposed to "conviction." A charge of assault might not lead to a conviction if the accusation leading to the charge was found to be without merit.

        As others have said - it depends. Contact with references may be telling, too. If they characterize your candidate as a "hothead," it may be time to move on.
        Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

        Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Depends: Did he win or lose?
          Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tree68 View Post
            Looking over several on-line definitions, "assault" doesn't necessarily mean actual physical contact. That's "battery." Assault means an actual threat of violence of which the intended victim is aware and which it appears may be carried out.

            You also used the term "charge" as opposed to "conviction." A charge of assault might not lead to a conviction if the accusation leading to the charge was found to be without merit.

            As others have said - it depends. Contact with references may be telling, too. If they characterize your candidate as a "hothead," it may be time to move on.
            You are correct, if I tell you, "I am going to hit you", I am now techincally guilty of assault. As for the difference of charge or conviction, if it is just a charge, he technically doesn't have to admit it, because he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

            If it were me, I would do a little more probing. With him being so qualified, I would probably proceed with the interview and bring it up. If it appears to be a one time incident, something minor, I might be willing to overlook it. If his record shows recurring run-ins with the law, then you have a problem, and best to walk away.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johnny46 View Post
              Depends: Did he win or lose?
              And how big was the other guy?
              ~Drew
              Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
              USAR TF Rescue Specialist

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tree68 View Post

                As others have said - it depends. Contact with references may be telling, too. If they characterize your candidate as a "hothead," it may be time to move on.
                I don't know, I find references (at least the ones provided by the applicant) to be essentially worthless at the entry level. Everyone chooses people they know will say nice things about them. Otherwise why would you use them as references? What I'll do is call people they don't list. Their former chiefs or bosses, former coworkers I may know, etc. If all else fails, I'll use their reference list, but only as a last resort.
                Last edited by roykirk1989; 09-19-2010, 03:48 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The best option would be to pull the court records and see what they discovered. It cold be something nasty that was reduced on a plea, or it could be something as simple as a shouting match. I know here assault is a threat, as apposed to a battery which is physical contact.
                  Personally I agree with the others. There are many qualified applications looking for a job, to take someone who may or my not e a problem child later on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Acklan View Post
                    There are many qualified applications looking for a job, to take someone who may or my not e a problem child later on.
                    The issue is moot. An employer cannot ask a prospective employee if s/he has ever been arrested or charged with a crime; only if s/he has any prior convictions. Nor is a prospective employee under any obligation to divulge any prior arrests or charges.
                    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                    sigpic
                    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bushwhacker View Post
                      But........He has a assault charge on his record. Now what kinda wrench does that throw into your hiring gears?
                      Is it a charge or a conviction.

                      Charges/arrests should not have a bearing on an application. That whole innocent unless proven guilty, thing.
                      I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

                      "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

                      "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                        The issue is moot. An employer cannot ask a prospective employee if s/he has ever been arrested or charged with a crime; only if s/he has any prior convictions. Nor is a prospective employee under any obligation to divulge any prior arrests or charges.
                        In this hypothetically case it is not moot, as you put it, because the charge is part of his\her criminal record.

                        Originally posted by Bushwhacker View Post

                        But........He has a assault charge on his record. Now what kinda wrench does that throw into your hiring gears?
                        Along those lines in my state you have to submit to a criminal background check prior to employment.

                        STATE BACKGROUND CHECK

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FiremanLyman View Post
                          And how big was the other guy?
                          This, too.

                          Did he SWEEP THE LEG?
                          Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Hypothetically", I would make friends in the state's EMS office and see if they know about the charge/conviction if they do and the individual in question is still able to maintain their EMT-B certification especially if the charge/conviction predates them getting the EMT-B certification, then it must be relatively minor or in their distant past. Another thing to look for that isn't going to be common, but can help is if the applicant happens to have an emergency substitute teacher license, very popular with college students (easy way to make great money with their strange class schedules). If they have that then it is defiantly not a charge to worry about as long as the charge isn't too recent that it won't show up on the latest background check. But like some of the others said, if you've got other applicants with similar qualifications with clean histories and your personal contacts are coming back with positive reviews then drop the one with the shady record.

                            If you keep the individual on to the Interview stage I would ask why they are no longer doing wildlands firefighting, because I've only met one individual that was young that left wildlands after they got on a full-time crew and that was because they were going back to school so they could get structural certs and even then they didn't drop wildlands entirely and once they got them they had every intention of going back to a 'shotcrew. The state hired them on for their Inter-agency handcrew. To get your engine boss cert. means you've spent a decent amount of time in wildlands firefighting and been on more than one permanent crew. To me it sounds like the individual had one of three things happen; they screwed the pouch as an engine boss and can't find another job in wildlands, had too close a call on a fire that scared them into leaving, or they have some sort of domestic influence tying them to a geographic area. (i.e. just got married, parent or someone they are close too is terminally ill, etc.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              First step would be to contact the investigating officer to see what he can tell me about the kid and the case in general. Next step after its been investigated check his references and see what they have to say. Everybody messes up sometimes, and i'm of the feeling it shouldnt hinder an individuals entire life unless they beat someone into the hospital. Firefighters arent always exactly exemplemary citizens off duty anyway, we all know how we are so i'm not going to go down that path...


                              if i was the kid i would do anything i could to be as up front about the incident as possible and get it all out on the table before hand. Nothing looks worse to me than not disclosing a potential problem up front

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