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Morning Pride vs. Cairns

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  • Morning Pride vs. Cairns

    I've been set on getting a Cairns Classic 1000 helmet for some time now. This afternoon I happened to be at my department's quartermaster on an unrelated matter, and the quartermaster and I happened to get talking about helmets, and he told me that the Morning Pride Ben II was actually better. He said something about their "fyr-glass" material being better than fiberglass, and I said I thought the 1000 was made from a kevlar composite, and he said that's worse. So now I'm not sure what to get.

    I found out later the Classic 1000 is actually made from a fiberglass-reinforced kevlar material. I have no idea what "fyr-glass" actually is.

    A bit of back-story: I'm a volunteer EMT. The county FD issues us helmets, I'm not sure which brand or model, other than they are the modern style. I want to get my own helmet partly because I prefer the traditional style and partly because I want some freedom to customize it a bit (staying within safety standards, of course). As an EMT, I shouldn't be exposed to a lot of heat, but I'm more concerned with debris protection. For example, if I'm in the back seat of a car holding c-spine stabilization on a trapped person during an extrication.
    -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

    The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

  • #2
    This is a personal preference...

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    • #3
      If I just asked, "Which one do you like better," yes, that'd be subjective. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking which one protects better. That question regards a matter of fact, not subjective preference.
      -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

      The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

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      • #4
        If all I was concerned about was vehicle extractions , I would proably wear a phoenix light weight like LA county -maybe even a usar helmet.
        ?

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        • #5
          Your Quartermaster is believing advertising hype.

          Cairns, Bullard, Morning Pride, etc are all making helmets with some sort of composite. At the end of the day, they are all more then adequate. I have never heard of issues with ANY of those brands in terms of a heat issue with the helmet shells. I have seen PLENTY of 10+ year helmets that have been through hellish fires and the shells are fine. And impact wise? Put it to you this way, if your taking an impact so intense that one composite shell performs better then another, you wll still likley be left with a broken neck. The helmets suspension is what protects you from impact more then anything, not the shell. And they are all based on the same basic design. They all meet the NFPA standards so their is no issue.

          Have you ever seen ANY brand of composite helmet shell cracked or punctured before the suspension failed? I have not.

          As for the Ben II, I have found few people who like that helmet from a comfort standpoint. Most complain it sits too high on the head. And i agree. The shield holding eagle is a piece of junk too. It does not bend like Cairns and Bullard eagles and front holders do so it will transmit any impact directly the shell instead of collapsing and absorbing it. And because it does not bend, you will see shields unsupported at the top of these helmets with a gap left that is perfect for snagging wires. Go look at the thousands of pictures of the FDNY guys with these helmets. I cannot believe how many i see with the gapped eagle.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JJR512 View Post
            ... As an EMT, I shouldn't be exposed to a lot of heat, but I'm more concerned with debris protection. For example, if I'm in the back seat of a car holding c-spine stabilization on a trapped person during an extrication.
            I think the last thing you would want is a traditional style helmet. Clean and smooth with nothing sticking off of it to get in the way or snag on headliners etc.

            Carnes modern (as 660C) with the Defender shield would be my choice. Defender now has primary eye protection rating so you won't need googles on the helmet.

            For EMS only a Rescue style helmet would do all that is required.

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            • #7
              I have worn both, and in my opinion it is hard to beat the comfort of a Cairns with a deluxe leather liner.
              Career Firefighter
              Volunteer Captain

              -Professional in Either Role-

              Originally posted by Rescue101
              I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by WD6956 View Post
                Your Quartermaster is believing advertising hype.

                Cairns, Bullard, Morning Pride, etc are all making helmets with some sort of composite. At the end of the day, they are all more then adequate. I have never heard of issues with ANY of those brands in terms of a heat issue with the helmet shells. I have seen PLENTY of 10+ year helmets that have been through hellish fires and the shells are fine. And impact wise? Put it to you this way, if your taking an impact so intense that one composite shell performs better then another, you wll still likley be left with a broken neck. The helmets suspension is what protects you from impact more then anything, not the shell. And they are all based on the same basic design. They all meet the NFPA standards so their is no issue.

                Have you ever seen ANY brand of composite helmet shell cracked or punctured before the suspension failed? I have not.

                As for the Ben II, I have found few people who like that helmet from a comfort standpoint. Most complain it sits too high on the head. And i agree. The shield holding eagle is a piece of junk too. It does not bend like Cairns and Bullard eagles and front holders do so it will transmit any impact directly the shell instead of collapsing and absorbing it. And because it does not bend, you will see shields unsupported at the top of these helmets with a gap left that is perfect for snagging wires. Go look at the thousands of pictures of the FDNY guys with these helmets. I cannot believe how many i see with the gapped eagle.
                Thanks! That's kind of what I was suspecting...Although to be fair to the quartermaster, he wasn't talking about impact resistance while it was being worn. I should have explained that, sorry. He was telling me that he's seen the Ben II survive drops from heights higher than drops that have shattered Cairnes helmets, and I think he thought he was just trying to help me protect my investment by not buying something that might accidentally shatter. So I really have no idea if that is true or not, but I don't think I'll be getting up too high, and I tend to be very protective of my gear. And the comfort issue is more important, I think. So I'll stick with the Cairnes, like I originally planned.

                Thanks again!
                -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

                The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by neiowa View Post
                  I think the last thing you would want is a traditional style helmet. Clean and smooth with nothing sticking off of it to get in the way or snag on headliners etc.

                  Carnes modern (as 660C) with the Defender shield would be my choice. Defender now has primary eye protection rating so you won't need googles on the helmet.

                  For EMS only a Rescue style helmet would do all that is required.
                  I understand what you're saying, and it does make good practical sense. But if everybody only ever made sensible decisions, Ferrari wouldn't exist, and everybody would have 10¢ Bic pens. Choosing something that doesn't necessarily make the most sense—buying a $300k car, a $300 pen, whatever—just because we like it better than the sensible choice...well that's what makes life interesting!
                  -Justin J. "JJR512" Rebbert

                  The comments and opinions I express are solely my own and do not necessarily represent those of any employer or volunteer organization with which I am associated. Nobody is responsible for anything I say other than I alone.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    But why would some one buy a Ferrari , if they needed to haul firewood? A traditional helmet would be my last choice if I was EMS only.
                    ?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
                      But why would some one buy a Ferrari , if they needed to haul firewood? A traditional helmet would be my last choice if I was EMS only.
                      A traditional helmet would be my last choice for anything but a bar decoration.
                      "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                      sigpic
                      The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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                      • #12
                        We wear the MP Ben 2 Plus helmets and really like them. Had a couple suspensions issues with a few and they immediatlye sent replacements no questions asked. They do sit higher, however, but they dont have foam liners to separate from the shell. We havent had any issues with our Paul Conway shields not being supported correctly. Love the EZ-Flips. Side note: never worn a Carnes. So you like what you have!
                        Sitting in the back seat of a vehicle holding spinal imob, would likely be an issue with the taller helmet. Lots of lesser helmets offer debris protection. Sounds like the this isn't what you need for EMS work.
                        Last edited by hinesfire; 09-22-2010, 04:23 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                          A traditional helmet would be my last choice for anything but a bar decoration.
                          DUCK! and COVER! INCOMING! Hehe, T.C.

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                          • #14
                            I'll take a Ferrari and a traditional Leather lid to go with it!
                            ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                            Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WD6956 View Post
                              As for the Ben II, I have found few people who like that helmet from a comfort standpoint. Most complain it sits too high on the head. And i agree. The shield holding eagle is a piece of junk too. It does not bend like Cairns and Bullard eagles and front holders do so it will transmit any impact directly the shell instead of collapsing and absorbing it. And because it does not bend, you will see shields unsupported at the top of these helmets with a gap left that is perfect for snagging wires. Go look at the thousands of pictures of the FDNY guys with these helmets. I cannot believe how many i see with the gapped eagle.
                              I would tend to disagree with your assessment of the Ben II (Plus?) helmet. I've worn several Cairns models over the years (N5A, N6A, 1010, 660 and 1 or 2 others) and my Ben II Plus helmet is by far the most comfortable overall and don't think it sits too high at all.

                              As for the eagle, I think it's better than the Cairns & Bullard models because it doesn't bend. Personally I like the fact that if my helmet falls to the ground, the piece doesn't get all bent out of shape. The "shock absorbing" aspect you talk about is minimal at best. Pretty much any impact strong enough to collapse the eagle on those helmets will be transmitted to the helmet itself (and the head inside it).

                              Yes, the interface with the shield could be a little better, but I don't find it to be that bad if you place the shield properly and the shield has a small notch at the top. If you use a pointed shield, like usually found on a Cairns helmet, the top of the shield will not be supported properly. It's a more of a compatibility issue than a problem with the eagle itself.

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