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FDNY Helmets + NFPA Compliance

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  • FDNY Helmets + NFPA Compliance

    After watching numerous documentaries this weekend on 9/11, I couldnt help but notice how the fdny's helmets just have bourkes, no eyeshield or goggles. It was my understanding that you need goggles with bourkes to be NFPA compliant.

    How do they get around this? Or is anyone familiar enough to know that they carry goggles in turnouts? Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by JerseyPride57 View Post
    After watching numerous documentaries this weekend on 9/11, I couldnt help but notice how the fdny's helmets just have bourkes, no eyeshield or goggles. It was my understanding that you need goggles with bourkes to be NFPA compliant.

    How do they get around this? Or is anyone familiar enough to know that they carry goggles in turnouts? Thanks.
    Simple. FDNY doesn't wear NFPA compliant helmets.

    NFPA writes peer consensus standards -- not OSHA regulations. OSHA references NFPA on several firefighter PPE items but helmets isn't one of them.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
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    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    • #3
      Nor does FDNY ride NFPA compliant rigs.
      Career Fire Captain
      Volunteer Chief Officer


      Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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      • #4
        I believe the bourkes on Morning Pride's Ben II helmets are NFPA compliant. Slightly larger than the standard bourkes.
        FireMedic

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        • #5
          So, I only run bourkes on my helmet too. Its not a department standard as all our newer helmets are ordered with both Bourkes and ESS goggles. Once the individual firefighter gets them its up to them to leave the goggles on or off. I took mine off because I never used them and just added clutter to my helmet, the bourkes work just fine for me.

          I don't know if this is how the FDNY does it, but it might explain it. And like someone else already said, the NFPA doesn't make rules, just guidelines that departments can follow.
          Opinions expressed by myself here are just that, mine. And not that of ANY organization or service I am affiliated with.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by quickstangsvt302 View Post
            I believe the bourkes on Morning Pride's Ben II helmets are NFPA compliant. Slightly larger than the standard bourkes.
            1) They aren't "Bourkes" -- that's a trade name for a visor system that isn't part of any NFPA compliant helmet unless it comes with a pair of compliant goggles attached as well.

            2) The larger Morning Pride "EZ Flips" are part of a compliant Ben-2 helmet if the helmet was purchased with them attached. (They can't be retrofitted to a Ben 2 that didn't come with them and be NFPA compliant.)
            "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
            sigpic
            The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by EngineCO38 View Post
              just guidelines that departments can follow.
              Departments and tort lawyers.
              "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
              sigpic
              The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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              • #8
                So technically you dont HAVE to follow NFPA regulations?

                Although, I would think if one received an eye injury and was found to not be wearing compliant eye protections, their basically SOL correct?

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                • #9
                  NFPA= Not For Practical Application

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JerseyPride57 View Post
                    So technically you dont HAVE to follow NFPA regulations?
                    That depends on your jurisdiction and/or department policy.

                    Although, I would think if one received an eye injury and was found to not be wearing compliant eye protections, their basically SOL correct?
                    Again, jurisdiction. The only question is who is SOL; the department or the individual. The tort lawyers win either way.
                    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                    sigpic
                    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JMac73 View Post
                      NFPA= Not For Practical Application
                      No, silly, it's "No Free Publications Available"...

                      They tend to be very practical where application is at issue.
                      "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                      sigpic
                      The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JerseyPride57 View Post

                        Although, I would think if one received an eye injury and was found to not be wearing compliant eye protections, their basically SOL correct?
                        The two issues are not one in the same. I can have on a non compliant helemt but still be wearing compliant eye protection.

                        The face that eye protection alone is what makes a helmet compliant or not just shows how screwed up NFPA is. Wether or not I have goggles has nothing to do with how my head will survive an impact.
                        Career Firefighter
                        Volunteer Captain

                        -Professional in Either Role-

                        Originally posted by Rescue101
                        I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
                          The face that eye protection alone is what makes a helmet compliant or not
                          It's not that; it's that the 1971 standard insists on one item responsible for all head protection -- including eye protection.

                          just shows how screwed up NFPA is.
                          Nah, that's not an overall NFPA thing, that's a whoever on the 1971 committee is so dead set against addressing head and eye protection as seperate issues that can be addressed together, but don't necessarily have to be

                          Wether or not I have goggles has nothing to do with how my head will survive an impact.
                          Having a helmet has nothing to do with how your eyes will survive injuries either. It's a quirk but, as quirks go, not a big deal, IMHO.
                          "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                          sigpic
                          The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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                          • #14
                            Who really gives a flying fcuk?!?
                            AJ, MICP, FireMedic
                            Member, IACOJ.
                            FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
                            This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
                              Nor does FDNY ride NFPA compliant rigs.
                              one of the things the rest of the country should copy. Have they seen any negative consequences after apparatus crashes?


                              P.S. any one that goes to fires even occasionally would do better to get a sleeve and store their goggles in a pocket or somewhere protected. A couple fires and the goggles will be forever smoked up, and if you aren't doing outside work by the time you need eye protection your goggles will be gunked up from debris.
                              Last edited by nameless; 09-12-2010, 10:34 PM.

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