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Dept. taking away Leather Helmets PLEASE HELP!!!

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  • #31
    As far as the whole NFPA compliant thing- keep in mind that the helmets meet NFPA compliance as they are tested and shipped. The minute you add anything (including a decal) that's not OK'd by the manufacturer in writing, it may no longer be NFPA compliant.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Catch22 View Post
      As far as the whole NFPA compliant thing- keep in mind that the helmets meet NFPA compliance as they are tested and shipped. The minute you add anything (including a decal) that's not OK'd by the manufacturer in writing, it may no longer be NFPA compliant.
      Not to mention the helmet itself has nothing to do with it. If you set two Phenix TL-2s side by side, one with goggles and one without, they will be the same exact helmet but one will be NFPA and one wont.
      Career Firefighter
      Volunteer Captain

      -Professional in Either Role-

      Originally posted by Rescue101
      I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by sfd1992 View Post
        What exactly does the "support" (or lack of) on FH.com have to do with the OP's situation? I doubt it's going to mean Jack Sheet to anyone in the decision making process at his FD.

        If his FD says no leather, then no leather it is. If the people paying you every two weeks say that you're going to wear a purple Kaiser Wilhelm helmet, then you do it. Or quit.

        Maybe everyone realizes that with houses closing, brothers being laid off, and brownouts occurring daily all across the country, there are bigger fish to fry than helmets.
        His Chief said no leather, so fine.

        I said I see no support because everyone is saying "why even go leather when there are better options?"
        Most of the posts are saying leather shouldn't even be around anymore and plastic should be the new standard.
        Thats where I say there is lack of support. Fighting his chief isnt going to do anything but **** of the chief.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
          Interesting discussion. At my career department, we are issued turtle shells. I would estimate 90 percent of the 150 person department has purchased their own traditional style plastic helmets and turned the turtle shells back in. There are a few of us who wear leather.

          I bought my own traditional plastic, and then my own leather. Why? Honestly, because I dang well felt like it. Very few aspects of fire service tradition can actually be practiced instead of just observed, and this is one of them.

          We do not have regulations on what helmets we wear. For that matter, the only thing that is department issued in my gear is the coat and pants. Boots, gloves, hood and SCBA mask were all purchased by me. Why? Because I found different models of each that fit me better than what was department issued, all of which still meet required standards.

          Standardization is one thing, but buying bottom of the barrel equipment because of budget constraints and then telling the guys who will be wearing it that they can't go out and buy something better doesn't make much sense. Obviously, this usually only applies to the above listed items (not coats and pants, who would want to spend the money).

          On the other hand, if I worked somewhere that told me what I was going to wear, no exceptions, I would wear it. As long as they pay the bills I will wear whatever they want.

          Couldn't have said it better myself friend. BTW, the rest of this post has nothing to do with you, I support your post.

          The OP simply wanted guidance on where to get the information to support his case to the chief, which the chief seems to support his doing. So why are all these random opinions about why would anyone want to buy their own gear if the department provides, leather sucks/plastic rules, etc. on this thread? Way off topic. As to why he would buy his own helmet if given the opportunity, why not. If he wants it, the rules allow it, and he has the money for it, then by all means, buy what makes you happy. And as far a negative comments about tradition, if you can make a traditional piece of gear, i.e. a leather helmet NFPA compliant and modern in every aspect except for the shell, then waht's the problem with holding on to that tradition. I mean, you can't modernize a horse or a steamer, so how in the world can that even start to be compared to a helmet which can be modernized and made compliant?

          How about we help this fellow get the information he needs and not diss his preferences on helmets. Wouldn't that be a bit more productive than trying to make him feel like a [email protected]$$ for trying to salvage what little tradition the fire service still has?
          Last edited by firefightinirish217; 08-26-2010, 06:31 PM. Reason: Add a sentence

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          • #35
            Cities dont buy plastic helmets because there safer or "progressive". There cheaper! Bottom line. That is all they they care about.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by RustBeltFire View Post
              Cities dont buy plastic helmets because there safer or "progressive". There cheaper! Bottom line. That is all they they care about.
              Perhaps. I think to be more accurate therE is no reason to blow limited $ on something that does not provide additional safety or performance.

              I think very few US FD actually buy the cheapest possible (low bid) piece of equipment. You still wearing nomex gear, plastic tip/nozzles, cowhide gloves? I think, within budget constraints and missions assigned, we honestly evaluate available equipment that best meets requirements for funds available and purchase accordingly. On the otherhand, I'm sure there are FD that are ruled by graft and corruption but hopefully all such are in Africa (or France).
              Last edited by neiowa; 08-26-2010, 08:28 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by neiowa View Post
                Perhaps. I think to be more accurate their is no reason to blow limited $ on something that does not provide additional safety or performance.

                I think very few US FD actually buy the cheapest possible (low bid) piece of equipment. You still wearing nomex gear, plastic tip/nozzles, cowhide gloves? I think, within budget constraints and missions assigned, we honestly evaluate available equipment that best meets requirements for funds available and purchase accordingly. On the otherhand, I'm sure there are FD that are ruled by graft and corruption but hopefully all such are in Africa (or France).
                HAHA, then you should check out the Cohutta Volunteer Fire Department. Not only did the helmet I was issued not have a sweat band on it, just rough plastic, but it also had a crack in the top of it. Also, the bunker gear I got was about 2 sizes too big, with holes in the cuffs and buttons missing where the suspenders were supposed to attach. It didn't help that the mayor was the chief, and all of the city councilmen were the captains either. They're out there brother, and more than you'd realize. It's pretty sad when a mayor election splits a fire dept. right down the middle. How safe is that. That's why in my opinion mayors and city councilmen have no place in the hierachy of the fire dept. itsself, as far as chief and officers go.
                Last edited by firefightinirish217; 08-26-2010, 09:07 PM.

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                • #38
                  what dept do you work for in florida?

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                  • #39
                    I think very few US FD actually buy the cheapest possible (low bid) piece of equipment.
                    If you believe this... I have some oceanfront property in Nebraska you might be interested in...
                    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                    • #40
                      I went through 5 FD issued pleather lids (to be fair, the 1010 I had was great until some little "bahstid" stole it out of the rig while I was at a medical call, the FD replaced it with a Bullard traditional that was the worst POS I have ever worn).

                      I bought my own leather lids (the first was a N6A NFPA compliant Sam Houston, the second was an OSHA compliant N5A and is now my present lid).

                      I plan on giving my son my N6A when he graduates from the Academy.
                      ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                      Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by PaladinKnight View Post
                        Tradition?

                        I knew it was just a matter of time before someone gave us the big T.

                        If I hung on to the tradition, I wouldn't be here.

                        We traded our horses in a long time ago.

                        Perhaps we need to go back to the time before Nomax and Kevlar.

                        Maybe we need to send the CAFs back since we don't need them.

                        Oh, we don't need towers and ladders either.

                        Hell, break out the buckets boys...



                        I don't mind tradition. Keep some of the tradition if you like.

                        But, sometimes you have to embrace a thing called Progress.
                        I guess you know a thing or two about using buckets, huh


                        oh and horses two
                        Get the first line into operation.

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                        • #42
                          My signature says it all....
                          ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                          Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by L-Webb View Post
                            I guess you know a thing or two about using buckets, huh


                            oh and horses two


                            Of course... now the buckets are used to carry feed for the horses.
                            HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by PaladinKnight View Post



                              I don't mind tradition. Keep some of the tradition if you like.

                              But, sometimes you have to embrace a thing called Progress.
                              Again... I'm not saying to use some Leather lid my great grandfather gave me as a gift. I'm asking to have a choice of Leather or Plastic that are both NFPA complaint and meet or exceed all safety requirements set by NFPA and OSHA.

                              Wow! I came looking for research/facts and all I've been given is a discussion/argument. I respect all of your opinions, really I do, but please help a brother out over here! I NEED RESEARCH, FACTS, LITERATURE.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by PaladinKnight View Post

                                I am a bit amazed that the Chief gave him an opportunity to state a case. But I am even more amazed that the OP would bring it here. That is like asking your friend to do your homework.

                                If I give a guy a chance to state a case, he gets extra points for doing his own work, doing his level best and providing originality opposed to passing his chance off to someone else.

                                OP: The internet is a wonderful tool... just use it instead of taking shortcuts.

                                My apologies to those that think I insulted them.

                                This is what I call doing my homework. I've check the Internet, I've called the companies, and I'm asking on forums. It's called COVERING YOUR BASES! I'm trying to give the board a chance to make an informed decision.

                                I'm not asking the department to issue everyone a leather helmet. I'm simply asking to keep the same SOG's we've had for years ; I may purchase my own helmet so long as it's the same color and shape (i.e. black and classic/traditional shape) AND IS NFPA COMPLIANT!

                                You don't like Leather, fantastic. You think it's dumb to spend your own personal money on gear, fantastic. I respect your opinions and preferences. Why can't you respect and understand my personal opinion and preference?

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