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Dept. taking away Leather Helmets PLEASE HELP!!!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by HFDCasiano View Post
    It's about tradition and pride
    Beards, leather buckets, and steam fired pumpers are proud traditions, too. Leather lids and antique styled faux-leather lids should have followed them to fire museums years ago.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
    sigpic
    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    • #17
      how is the turtle shell superior to a "traditional" if they are made from the same material?

      the shell is just a shell correct? its the impact cap that really is doing the protecting of your dome if something should wail you on the head. So is there a difference in safety between leather and plastic? I'd say no to negligible.

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      • #18
        Its pretty sad that many of you don't support Leather Lids.

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        • #19
          Tradition?

          I knew it was just a matter of time before someone gave us the big T.

          If I hung on to the tradition, I wouldn't be here.

          We traded our horses in a long time ago.

          Perhaps we need to go back to the time before Nomax and Kevlar.

          Maybe we need to send the CAFs back since we don't need them.

          Oh, we don't need towers and ladders either.

          Hell, break out the buckets boys...



          I don't mind tradition. Keep some of the tradition if you like.

          But, sometimes you have to embrace a thing called Progress.
          HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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          • #20
            Originally posted by PaladinKnight View Post
            Tradition?

            I knew it was just a matter of time before someone gave us the big T.

            If I hung on to the tradition, I wouldn't be here.

            We traded our horses in a long time ago.

            Perhaps we need to go back to the time before Nomax and Kevlar.

            Maybe we need to send the CAFs back since we don't need them.

            Oh, we don't need towers and ladders either.

            Hell, break out the buckets boys...



            I don't mind tradition. Keep some of the tradition if you like.

            But, sometimes you have to embrace a thing called Progress.
            so you have no valid argument besides this melodramatic paragraph, how is moving on beyond leather or even plastic that looks like leather beneficial? How is keeping faux-leather plastic helmets hurting or holding back the fire service?

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            • #21
              If both helmets offer the same protection, how can you not support leather? New things come along and replace old things, but we are still using axes. Why? If something is still usable and doesn't have a better replacement, should we get rid of it because it is old and has a long FD tradition?

              To all those agianst leathers, do you support the European helmets? They offer more head protection and built in eye protection.
              FF/Paramedic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Deluge059 View Post
                Its pretty sad that many of you don't support Leather Lids.

                What exactly does the "support" (or lack of) on FH.com have to do with the OP's situation? I doubt it's going to mean Jack Sheet to anyone in the decision making process at his FD.

                If his FD says no leather, then no leather it is. If the people paying you every two weeks say that you're going to wear a purple Kaiser Wilhelm helmet, then you do it. Or quit.

                Maybe everyone realizes that with houses closing, brothers being laid off, and brownouts occurring daily all across the country, there are bigger fish to fry than helmets.
                Last edited by sfd1992; 08-26-2010, 01:51 PM.

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                • #23
                  Great point, SFD.

                  Pardon me if I don't really give two thoughts as to what helmet is more important to wear.
                  I would rather have the 200 plus line positions stolen from the department here, rather than ever see a leather helmet again. I am quite sure those from local-22 or local-344 feel the exact same way.

                  It's about protecting your head and the rest of your body. In every place that has taken cuts to line positions, even if a leather provides more protection (for the sake of discussion only), those members in those departments are less safe.

                  So, once again; why is this an important topic?

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                  • #24
                    I knew there would a few that assumed that I was against leather lids. You have to be careful not to read into something that isn't there.


                    Originally posted by nameless
                    so you have no valid argument besides this melodramatic paragraph, how is moving on beyond leather or even plastic that looks like leather beneficial? How is keeping faux-leather plastic helmets hurting or holding back the fire service?
                    Ahhh, step back for just a minute there nameless. I respect you there buddy but I did not endorse or slam either leather or Plastic helmets. My remark about tradition can apply to anything since the industrial revolution started. My remarks only apply to the POLICY concerning PPE. You call my remark melodramatic... tell me where I condemned your leather my friend. I think you nailed melodramatic... not I.

                    I was referring to the rules that a fire department applies. If a department eliminates leather, they do not have to justify it to the staff. They pay the bills and decide policy. But it might also be considered progress.

                    Currently, about half of our guys wear leather. But we are retiring the leather out as they become damaged or past date. Since the city is suffering a huge deficit, cost is everything. It has nothing to do with tradition... it has to do with economics. If the money comes back during my watch, then leather will not be out of play.

                    Oh... I did say that I could spend MY MONEY on something other than PPE. Why would I buy my own when the department provides two very good sets? I don't allow anyone to modify their PPE, but that is my decision. The next guy can change it if he wishes.

                    Would it make you feel better if I told you that the guys get to keep their leather lid when they retire, or as I retire their helmet? It cannot be used on duty any longer, but they can do anything else they wish with it after it is theirs.



                    Originally posted by TNFF319
                    If both helmets offer the same protection, how can you not support leather? New things come along and replace old things, but we are still using axes. Why? If something is still usable and doesn't have a better replacement, should we get rid of it because it is old and has a long FD tradition?
                    You know what? If it aint broke, don't fix it. So TN, again, where did I say I did not support leather helmets? My remark to tradition was meant to show how WE CAN GO STUPID at times because change is so scary and difficult.

                    _____________________________________________

                    Jasper and SFD: Thanks for summing it up. This issue is not a discussion about which helmet is better. The OP asks for help on which helmet is better trying to prove a point and save his beloved leather helmet. Out of curiosity, I tried to find the answer to that question. All I can find is the same thing I find here... opinions. My own opinion is "Either will do the job.". Everyone has their favorite, or some are traditionalists. Not a thing with either of those positions.

                    What several have completely overlooked, is the Chief or Jurisdiction sets the policy. Nothing that we debate here is going to change the OPs Chief's policy.

                    I am a bit amazed that the Chief gave him an opportunity to state a case. But I am even more amazed that the OP would bring it here. That is like asking your friend to do your homework.

                    If I give a guy a chance to state a case, he gets extra points for doing his own work, doing his level best and providing originality opposed to passing his chance off to someone else.

                    OP: The internet is a wonderful tool... just use it instead of taking shortcuts.

                    My apologies to those that think I insulted them.
                    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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                    • #25
                      The TL-2 or N6A isn't a progressive leather ? I believe it is seeing how they no longer produce 5A leathers other than for show.

                      It really doesn't matter at the end of the day because you say tamato and I say tomato, you use cafs and I use just water. I love leathers and yall like plastic. It's a matter of opinion.

                      We don't need no stinkin cafs, send that back by all means.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by HFDCasiano View Post
                        The TL-2 or N6A isn't a progressive leather ? I believe it is seeing how they no longer produce 5A leathers other than for show.

                        It really doesn't matter at the end of the day because you say tamato and I say tomato, you use cafs and I use just water. I love leathers and yall like plastic. It's a matter of opinion.

                        We don't need no stinkin cafs, send that back by all means.


                        There is one in every crowd. Great job HFD!


                        Water still works.
                        HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by PaladinKnight View Post
                          There is one in every crowd. Great job HFD!


                          Water still works.
                          Sarcasm ? Can't pick up the undertone on these dang forums. Anyways, the wet stuff does very much still work. Thanks !!!

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                          • #28
                            I was serious...

                            I appreciate an honest post.

                            Good timing and great delviery.
                            HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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                            • #29
                              Interesting discussion. At my career department, we are issued turtle shells. I would estimate 90 percent of the 150 person department has purchased their own traditional style plastic helmets and turned the turtle shells back in. There are a few of us who wear leather.

                              I bought my own traditional plastic, and then my own leather. Why? Honestly, because I dang well felt like it. Very few aspects of fire service tradition can actually be practiced instead of just observed, and this is one of them.

                              We do not have regulations on what helmets we wear. For that matter, the only thing that is department issued in my gear is the coat and pants. Boots, gloves, hood and SCBA mask were all purchased by me. Why? Because I found different models of each that fit me better than what was department issued, all of which still meet required standards.

                              Standardization is one thing, but buying bottom of the barrel equipment because of budget constraints and then telling the guys who will be wearing it that they can't go out and buy something better doesn't make much sense. Obviously, this usually only applies to the above listed items (not coats and pants, who would want to spend the money).

                              On the other hand, if I worked somewhere that told me what I was going to wear, no exceptions, I would wear it. As long as they pay the bills I will wear whatever they want.
                              Career Firefighter
                              Volunteer Captain

                              -Professional in Either Role-

                              Originally posted by Rescue101
                              I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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                              • #30
                                sucks, were issued leather helmets.

                                pretty much this exact one as a matter of fact- http://a1-fireequipment.com/helmets/...r%20helmet.jpg
                                Last edited by Firefighter 21; 08-26-2010, 03:29 PM.

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