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DSPA: Dry Sprinkler Powder Aerosol, FIT: Fire Intervention Tool

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  • #31
    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
    Thirdly, I suppose you would have to determine if conditions in the fire room were survivable before you deployed the device. The sales info on the site of the fire equipment company that demoed it for us says the agent is non-toxic to victims and first responders. My assumption is that is just the extinguishing agent itself, not after being deployed.
    A great example of that same concept would be flour.

    Flour is about as non-toxic as you can get, but a lung full of non-toxic flour is never very good for your health.

    Again much thanks to you and Chenzo for giving us a true firefighter account of this gizmo.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    • #32
      Originally posted by FyredUp View Post

      Fourthly, I agree that I wonder if worrying about re-ignition is worth it. Because even if it does re-ignite the time you bought is still an advantage and may buy enough time to make a rescue or to an engine company to get set up and get water on the fire.
      I completely agree, my thought about not worrying so much about re-ignition was thinking that it may be used by some as a contraindication to deployment. I cannot see how buying time or slowing the fires progress could ever be seen in a negative light.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by MarcusKspn View Post
        A great example of that same concept would be flour.

        Flour is about as non-toxic as you can get, but a lung full of non-toxic flour is never very good for your health.

        Again much thanks to you and Chenzo for giving us a true firefighter account of this gizmo.
        Gizmo is what this is. Having reqd all the stuff from ARA, some of their "deployment instructions" make the movie Backdraft seem real.
        ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
        Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
          Gizmo is what this is. Having reqd all the stuff from ARA, some of their "deployment instructions" make the movie Backdraft seem real.
          Chief,

          I have the utmost in respect for you, and have agreed with you more times than not here on these forums, and admittedly was every bit as skeptical as you are about this device, but what I am saying here is garnered from MY PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS. It isn't from a video on the manufacturer's website, or from their advertisement copy, or from hearsay from others, it is from what I saw with my own 2 eyes.

          Do I believe it is the answer to every situation? Nope. Do I believe it should be used at every fire? Nope. Do I believe in circumstances where the engine is delayed or the response is long that it could be a valuable tool to buy time with? In certain circumstances YES, I do.

          The fact that the salespeople were willing to come out and do a demo under conditions WE set, on short notice, was very impressive to me. The willingness to do a demo in my home area if we have a practice burn in a structure was surprising to me. Admitting, in front of the crowd of students and instructors, that the first one failed to operate and that they have changed the triggering device on new models to correct the problem was a breath of fresh air. No excuses, we have a problem and we have fixed it on new models.

          I am not 100% sold on this for everyone, but I do believe it has applications for rural and suburban firefighters.

          And just to make it perfectly clear I am not in anyways affiliated with the company that demoed it for us or the manufacturer. I have no stake in this other than to pass on my personal observations of the device and how it worked.
          Last edited by FyredUp; 08-17-2010, 02:24 PM.
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

          Comment


          • #35
            Don.. we can have a difference of opinion on "das gizmo".

            I'm a Ford Mustang guy, the other Deputy I share my office with likes "bowties made by Owens-Corning..." but we agree on many other things...

            Personally, the cost of the device and it's less than stellar record of activation, along with the lack of Underwriter's Laboratories or Factory Mutual certification makes me a skeptic.
            Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 08-17-2010, 02:27 PM.
            ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
            Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
              Don.. we can have a difference of opinion on "das gizmo".

              Of course we can have adifference of opinion on this device. And admittedly based on just their advertising, and some of the staunch supporters of it here on FH.com, I too was beyond skeptical. But I have seen it work with my own 2 eyes and believe it does have practical applications in the fire service.

              I'm a Ford Mustang guy, the other Deputy I share my office with likes "bowties made by Owens-Corning..." but we agree on many other things...

              I am a Mustang man myself having a 1965 Mustang convertible in my pole barn awaiting my retirement for it to be restored to its original glory. Now I drive a Dodge Ram 4x4 and sing the Chevy song "See the USA in your Chevrolet from the back of my Dodge towtruck today!!"

              Personally, the cost of the device and it's less than stellar record of activation, along with the lack of Underwriter's Laboratories or Factory Mutual certification makes me a skeptic.

              I agree the cost is a major issue to its widespread adoption by the FD's that could use it the most, small ultra rural ones. The triggering device is an admitted design flaw and they have changed that on the newer devices. The salesman that did our demo admitted that he used old stock with the old tiggering device for the demo.

              There are many pieces of equipment that get used every day in the fire service without a UL label or a FM label or even an NFPA approval, the fire service would be hard pressed to do our job if they were all removed from service tomorrow. I am curious as to why they haven't gotten a UL approval for this device but not enough so to let it deter me from looking at the application of this device to certain fire ground situations.
              My advice to you is to find a local distributor and set up a demo. Because until you see it for yourself you really are just shooting from the hip.
              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
                Gizmo is what this is. Having reqd all the stuff from ARA, some of their "deployment instructions" make the movie Backdraft seem real.
                Wow. That's the best summary I've seen yet. Kudos, Chief!
                "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                sigpic
                The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
                  Wow. That's the best summary I've seen yet. Kudos, Chief!
                  Yepper, golly gizmo? You mean like when Thermal Imaging Cameras first hit the fire service? Or how about Class A foam? Or let's go back even further to those wonderous first days of SCBA? Weren't those for pussies?

                  It seems to me the smart firefighters look at new ideas and try them to see if they have value before dismissing them out of hand without ever having seen the device work, or used it themselves, in a demo.

                  I honestly expected that some here would automatically still be opposed to any thought of this device. I knew some people here would totally ignore what I saw and how I described it working. All that despite the fact that I have been here since 1999, my experience and knowledge level is known by many here, and it is clear I am not some fall for every new thing that comes on the market type.


                  I believe Doctor Suess said it best in his book Green Eggs and Ham..."You do not like them so you say, try them, try them, and you may." Blind refusal to try a new tool is every bit as ridiculous as blind faith in the way you have always done something depsite glaring evidence there may be a better way.
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Huh??.............

                    Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
                    Gizmo is what this is. Having reqd all the stuff from ARA, some of their "deployment instructions" make the movie Backdraft seem real.


                    "Backdraft wasn't Real???.... But they said...............
                    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                    In memory of
                    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                    IACOJ Budget Analyst

                    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                    www.gdvfd18.com

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      We'll just have to see where the FIT is in five or ten years.

                      Remember all the hoopla about radio control nozzles, where the nozzleman could control the valve on the pumper from the nozzle?
                      Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                      Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I'm still skeptical because I've yet to hear of more than a few deployments in real world conditions. Its usually a training burn with a pile of hay and pallets with maybe the door or some hay going. Also, what of their performance in newer style homes with open floor plans and high ceilings? You're typical old houses are very compartmentalized. These new houses aren't.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by nameless View Post
                          I'm still skeptical because I've yet to hear of more than a few deployments in real world conditions. Its usually a training burn with a pile of hay and pallets with maybe the door or some hay going. Also, what of their performance in newer style homes with open floor plans and high ceilings? You're typical old houses are very compartmentalized. These new houses aren't.
                          I spoke to a firefighter at the school who had used one of these at a fully involved basement fire. He said they tossed it in, let it do its thing, and then they entered and used about 50 gallons of water to overhaul with.

                          The advertisement they had out says this device will work in 3500 cubic feet of area. That is a pretty darn large area.

                          Like I have said, I have no iron in this fire other than to say "Hey! I have seen this thing work and maybe people should give it a serious look instead of just off handedly saying NO WAY!" I was impressed but want to see more. Other's mileage may vary.
                          Last edited by FyredUp; 08-18-2010, 07:49 AM.
                          Crazy, but that's how it goes
                          Millions of people living as foes
                          Maybe it's not too late
                          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Posted by FyredUp

                            I am a Mustang man myself having a 1965 Mustang convertible in my pole barn awaiting my retirement for it to be restored to its original glory.
                            Sweet!

                            Do you belong to a Mustang club? I am a amember of the Mustang Club of New England, member #380 and the Silver Mustang Registry, member # 870.
                            Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 08-18-2010, 05:19 PM. Reason: horrible spelling needed to be corrected!
                            ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                            Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
                              Posted by FyredUp



                              Sweet!

                              Do you belong to a Mustang club? I am a amember of the Mustanf Clunb of New England, member #380 and the Silver Mustang Registry, member # 870.
                              No, I am not a member of a club. When I was younger I owned a 67 coupe, a friend of mine owned a 68 coupe, another owned a 65 coupe and another owned a 70 Boss 302.

                              Now the three survivors own a 68 390 coupe, the Boss 302, and me with the 65 rag top waiting restoration.

                              At least of the 3, Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang the Mustang still has the classic lines, the Challenger is close to their roots, and in my eyes the new camaro is one of the ugliest cars ever built. In fact I would put it right up there with the AMC Pacer.
                              Crazy, but that's how it goes
                              Millions of people living as foes
                              Maybe it's not too late
                              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by nameless View Post
                                I'm still skeptical because I've yet to hear of more than a few deployments in real world conditions. Its usually a training burn with a pile of hay and pallets with maybe the door or some hay going. Also, what of their performance in newer style homes with open floor plans and high ceilings? You're typical old houses are very compartmentalized. These new houses aren't.
                                http://www.arasafety.com/ara-interac...nt-stories.htm

                                I bet I can find a phone # for any of the FD listed within 60seconds on goggle. There's you homework. Call some and give us a report.

                                I got a email in last few day from one of our suppliers that said closeout on old units (with a Pelican case) for sale price as new units with triggering system now out.

                                Not in our budget as too many other high priority projects (such as narrowband radios) that need $ but maybe some day. Or if found a restricted grant that would work for one I'd do that.

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