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  • nfpa standards

    My fire cheif "quotes" nfpa standards like they are the law to all fire departments. He says the department has to follow all the nfpa standards or we are in violation.
    Are nfpa standards a "guideline" or a "law" ?

  • #2
    They are not laws... but if someone gets hurt or killed.. they will be brought into the court and quoted as gospel.

    Do a search on Lairdsville, NY....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    • #3
      They're a nationally recognized standards, not laws. However, a good lawyer would be able to argue that a department willfully neglected to follow a nationally recognized set of standards. Could go either way...
      Career Fire Captain
      Volunteer Chief Officer


      Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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      • #4
        for your sake I hope he also quotes their standard on staffing....that would be the only one I'd consider a blessing.

        and 1403

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        • #5
          Some people like their cake and want to eat it too.

          If he cites NFPA in several areas to make a point of reference as the LAW, then anything that he or the JHA does not comply with is a matter of choice, or perhaps convenience. In other words, we will just pick and choose what part of NFPA we will recognize.

          Unfortunately, most departments are not even close to NFPA compliance. It is a bait and switch situation. Just when it seems you may finally reach compliance in some of the standard, it is changed, thus raising the bar.

          To reach compliance in the entire Standard, you would have to have an endless supply of funding. That doesn't exist anywhere that I know of. Some departments are better funded than others, and some are much closer to compliance than most.

          I tend to think of it as somewhere we'd like to be, but it is only a pipe dream.

          I can cite NFPA all day, and state we should do this and we should do that... but the reality is we should, but we can't.

          Chief's that use it as a whip to move their department historically are the one's that get thumped on down the road. Those demands and statements on the record will have more bearing than where the department really is at any given moment.

          If your department does not have the funding, then it cannot become compliant.
          HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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          • #6
            Originally posted by fireslayer911 View Post
            My fire cheif "quotes" nfpa standards like they are the law to all fire departments. He says the department has to follow all the nfpa standards or we are in violation.
            Are nfpa standards a "guideline" or a "law" ?
            A guideline as others have posted, and a standard to which you can be held to.

            I pretty much look at them as goals to achieve if possible.

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            • #7
              Everyone is correct,

              I'm not sure if this is fact, but, can a state adopt NFPA standards as a law?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fireslayer911 View Post
                My fire cheif "quotes" nfpa standards like they are the law to all fire departments. He says the department has to follow all the nfpa standards or we are in violation.
                Are nfpa standards a "guideline" or a "law" ?
                Ask him if your FD is 1710 or 1720 compliant!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
                  Ask him if your FD is 1710 or 1720 compliant!
                  You survived Lobstafest I see,hehe T.C.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fireslayer911 View Post
                    Are nfpa standards a "guideline" or a "law" ?
                    Pick a standard and a jurisdiction.

                    At the very least, they're professional peer consensus standards. They are also often legally adopted into law either implicitly or explicitly.

                    Either way your department will be held responsible for recognizing them to some extent.
                    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"
                    sigpic
                    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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                    • #11
                      They are the law where ever the AHJ, or the state, has adopted them as such.

                      Wisconsin has adopted, at the state level through Comm 30,the listed below NFPA standards.

                      NFPA 1001-1997
                      NFPA 1002-1998
                      NFPA 1021-1997
                      NFPA 1901-1999
                      NFPA 1911-1997
                      NFPA 1914-1997
                      NFPA 1971-2000
                      NFPA 1981-1997
                      NFPA 1982-1998
                      NFPA 1983-2001
                      Crazy, but that's how it goes
                      Millions of people living as foes
                      Maybe it's not too late
                      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                        They are the law where ever the AHJ, or the state, has adopted them as such.

                        Wisconsin has adopted, at the state level through Comm 30,the listed below NFPA standards.
                        `

                        I know Michigan has adopted some of the NFPA standards as part of their OSHA laws.
                        When I was there in the early 90's we had an OSHA inspection of the fire department.

                        They reviewed the trucks to see if they were compliant with the year they were bought.
                        Our new truck was.
                        They wanted to see training records.
                        Any accident reports.
                        Maintenence records and maybe some other stuff.

                        We did well.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Although Indiana has not adopted NFPA standards (to my knowledge) per say, IOSHA in Indiana uses NFPA guidelines to adopt standards.

                          Indiana's certification board is pushing HARD towards NFPA compliance....Wish we were all rich
                          A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                            They are the law where ever the AHJ, or the state, has adopted them as such.

                            Wisconsin has adopted, at the state level through Comm 30,the listed below NFPA standards.

                            NFPA 1001-1997
                            NFPA 1002-1998
                            NFPA 1021-1997
                            NFPA 1901-1999
                            NFPA 1911-1997
                            NFPA 1914-1997
                            NFPA 1971-2000
                            NFPA 1981-1997
                            NFPA 1982-1998
                            NFPA 1983-2001
                            I see 1983 on there. Has the state of WI become a manufacturer of rope equipment? This is not a jab at you, but why would a state adopt a standard for the manufacture of rope equipment? It is not a user standard.
                            Weekly updates on the world of rope:

                            http://rescue2training.com/journal.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I find it kinda funny on how the NFPA guidelines work. I know why they are there, but some are really overboard.

                              When they required/suggested the rear chevrons on the rear of the rigs, everybody here was against having them.

                              Now enter the builder of our last rigs. They said if you omit the chevrons, you have to sign a waiver.

                              Kinda puts you between a rock and a hard place.

                              FM1
                              I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

                              Originally posted by EastKyFF
                              "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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