Excellent commentary on Race based Quotas from Merit Matters

[L-Webb]

A thought just came to mind.........

According to Federal Anti-discrimination law as reference below, it is illegal to discriminate based on race and sex/gender.


Civil Rights Act of 1964
Title VII of this Act is "the" landmark, Federal employment discrimination law. It prohibits discrimination in any aspect of employment on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin or sex (gender).


So, if it's illegal to discriminate based on race and sex/gender in employment, then does a judge truly have the authority to mandate that an employer violate federal law by imposing "hiring quotas", whether by name or effect? After all, isn't the effect of "hiring quotas" discriminatory since at some point or at multiple points in the hiring process higher scoring qualified people will be passed over specifically because of race and/or sex/gender issues?

You are nailing it bro

So we are going to pass over all these people who did very well and hire these people because of race, babble, babble' babble ect

Stupid

[RFDACM02]

Wow thank you Firehouse.com editor in chief teacher sir.

Sorry Brother but the irony was just too much to resist.

[sweetpete]

Sorry, but your post indicates that it's likely you were not discriminated against based on anything but score.

Hahahaha......Classic.

[BKDRAFT]

Wow thank you Firehouse.com editor in chief teacher sir.

[RFDACM02]

I wondered this years ago when I felt I was discriminated against during the LAFD hiring process not one but two times.

I have read many articles claiming if their isn't a diverse enough group of people on the board that creates the exam questions. How the questions are worded. Also a test can be discriminatory not just but the content of the test,but if it creates a hardship for minorities to get to the test. LAFD would call minorities to remind them of upcoming exams and set up rides to and from the exams. I got a letter like any other department would mail out. I could go on and on...

Sorry, but your post indicates that it's likely you were not discriminated against based on anything but score.

[BKDRAFT]

HOW in the name of christ can a test discriminate??????? I dare anyone to explain.

I wondered this years ago when I felt I was discriminated against during the LAFD hiring process not one but two times.

I have read many articles claiming if their isn't a diverse enough group of people on the board that creates the exam questions. How the questions are worded. Also a test can be discriminatory not just but the content of the test but if it creates a hardship for minorities to get to the test. LAFD would call minorities to remind them of upcoming exams and set up rides to and from the exams. I got a letter like any other department would mail out. I could go on and on...

[BW21]

Picture if you will...

You are in need of surgery. It is a very serious operation that will have life or death consequences.

Do you want the best in the field, or someone who graduated dead last in his medical school class and barely got through internship and residency?

exactly bro,

Dayton, Ohio was going through this about 8-12 months ago and is probably the reason that this was ruled in the "hiring 2 blacks, 1 hispanic" favor. I'm all for diversity... But I don't want the guy who is backin me up on the line to be some drug dealer off the streets who was just looking for an "easy" job.

Bottom line, I know plenty of "minorities" on the job, they are good guys too.. but they want the job.. they arent some goof ball who wants "to do nothing and get paid for it"

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Picture if you will...

You are in need of surgery. It is a very serious operation that will have life or death consequences.

Do you want the best in the field, or someone who graduated dead last in his medical school class and barely got through internship and residency?

[FireMedic049]

A thought just came to mind.........

According to Federal Anti-discrimination law as reference below, it is illegal to discriminate based on race and sex/gender.


Civil Rights Act of 1964
Title VII of this Act is "the" landmark, Federal employment discrimination law. It prohibits discrimination in any aspect of employment on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin or sex (gender).


So, if it's illegal to discriminate based on race and sex/gender in employment, then does a judge truly have the authority to mandate that an employer violate federal law by imposing "hiring quotas", whether by name or effect? After all, isn't the effect of "hiring quotas" discriminatory since at some point or at multiple points in the hiring process higher scoring qualified people will be passed over specifically because of race and/or sex/gender issues?

[FireMedic049]

HOW in the name of christ can a test discriminate??????? I dare anyone to explain.

That's easy to explain. It discriminates against people who aren't very smart or are too lazy to adequately prepare for it.

[L-Webb]

HOW in the name of christ can a test discriminate??????? I dare anyone to explain.

[nameless]

maybe the test was unfair, if they want to skip down to lower scores to hire certain candidates, they should hire everyone at that score. After all, if the test discriminated against Jim and made him score low, it must have for Bill too.

[FFFRED]

Standing Up for Higher Standards...

from: Merit Matters

Two recent local newspaper editorials (see below) and a very recent Michael Bloomberg quote echo FDNY Deputy Chief Paul Mannix’s charge that the racial preferences based on the flawed and leaky judicial theory of “disparate impact,” amounts to a “quota system.”

The New York Post’s editorial included this statement, “Last January, he even imposed strict racial hiring quotas on the department, ordering that every five new hires must include two blacks and one Hispanic until precisely 293 minorities have been hired,” while the NY Daily News editorial offered this, “If Garaufis wants absolute parity - in effect, a quota - he should just order it. But of course, nobody wants that. Everyone wants fair hiring based solely on merit.”

Last week, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg noted, “"If some people don't want to go into that career, forcing them into it just because you have this quota system doesn't make any sense."

ALL of these coming AFTER, Deputy Chief Paul Mannix (President of Merit Matters) excoriated such race-based remedies as “quotas,” in a CBS Evening News TV interview.

It is one thing for firefighters and prospective Fire Dept. candidates to support the merit system that has offered them at least the same opportunity offered to anyone else who can pass a basic battery of tests, but it’s much riskier, at least career-wise, for Chief officers to take such a stand, even though they’re intimately familiar with why higher standards correlate with a higher quality workforce and are very aware of the intrinsic value of that.

Sad to say, it takes real courage for guys at the rank of Chief Officers, such as Chief Paul Sandellas (New Haven) and Chief Paul Mannix (FDNY) to support the merit system and higher standards because things are so "political" at that level. Their presence in that battle shows that that kind of courage is not all that common, even in a profession that defines itself by "courage."

Two things that those who won't stand up for anything, including something as important as basic standards must know are, (1) standing up for the merit system and high standards is NOT the same as "standing up for any given race or ethnicity" and (2) those who oppose the merit system have no problem using blatantly racial ("racist"?) arguments in their appeals and NEVER miss an opportunity to unabashedly "stand up for THEIR own race."

Isn't it well past time that those sitting comfortably on the sidelines (at all ranks), at the very least either stand up for standards or else, openly support the race-based hiring those opposed to the merit system want?

Bottom line, those OK with some of ANY race or ethnic background being treated as 2nd class citizens are both laying the groundwork for themselves ultimately being consigned to 2nd class citizenship, while at the very same time, proving that they richly deserve that fate, far more so than those who fought against it...infinitely more, in fact.

After all, they’ve already proven they don’t have the stomach to fight it.