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Can we stop dying or getting seriously hurt?

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  • Can we stop dying or getting seriously hurt?

    I'm getting tired of reading about FF LODD's from http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com. Along with that, all the crazy injuries and vehicle accidents, I have some opinions on that one, but I'll leave it at that.

    I have been in the paid fire service over 28 years working at busy houses. It just seems to me we're losing some perspective on the job. One thing I notice nowadays is the lack of common sense, experience and some wanting to be the FF that saves the world. It's great to be aggressive, wanting to do a good job, but eventually you need to draw the line or you're just waiting for the dragon to sleigh you, not the opposite.

    I think Phoenix FD says it all:

    We will risk our lives a lot, if necessary, to protect savable lives.
    We will risk our lives a little, and in a calculated manner, to protect savable property.
    We will not risk our lives at all to protect lives or property that are already lost.

    I know I'm ranting but I'm getting tired of brothers and sisters getting injured or killed at incidents that we shouldn't be.

    Risk vs. Gain! Please be safe everyone!!!

  • #2
    It isn't always as simple as risk vs gain. Sometimes **** just happens that nobody could reasonably predict or prevent.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    • #3
      one thing we need to do is train. And also learn not to speed and drive like a teenager that just got their first car. Ive read far too many stories lately about brothers that have been killed responding to calls in pov. Im gonna recall something that was said when i toke the academy, " We wont be able to help others if we too need to have help because we were careless". Remember to always think before acting.

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      • #4
        I agree 100%. I'm just saying to everyone let's use our heads a bit more and maybe prevent some of these death or injuries.

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        • #5
          And this one thing that's bothered me too.

          Originally posted by d_holder86 View Post
          Ive read far too many stories lately about brothers that have been killed responding to calls in pov.

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          • #6
            We all know that no one goes to work knowing they won't be coming home.

            As nmfire says, sometimes **** happens, best laid plans and all that.

            But if you look at the stats, I believe you'll find that only about a quarter of us die actually fighting fire. The rest are vehicle incidents and health issues - some of which are actually truly unpreventable/unpredictable, the rest will require that we drive more safely and can the unhealthy diets and behaviors.

            The USFA stats seem to show a general downward trend. In 1978 we lost 171 firefighters. The events of 9/11 notwithstanding, that's the highest number on the USFA graph. As of right now (per FFCC, 46), we're on track to stay below 2009's 93 LODDs. We can only hope.

            If there is something disappointing about the linked USFA charts, it's that the rate of LODDs per 100,000 fire incidents has been rising over the past few years.

            Remember, too, that we continue to learn. In the railroad business, it's said that the rulebooks are written in blood. The same is true in firefighting. We now afford trusses the respect they deserve - that wasn't always the case.

            You are right - we should be doing better. We are, but we have a ways to go.
            Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

            Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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            • #7
              I know a lot of railroaders and am a railfan myself, and you are dead on. Those guys fart wrong and they're let go. I just would like to see our numbers decrease, be strong, aggressive, but use more COMMON SENSE!

              Originally posted by tree68 View Post
              In the railroad business, it's said that the rulebooks are written in blood. The same is true in firefighting.

              We are, but we have a ways to go.

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              • #8
                lets not dump the brothers from Bridgeport in yet until we know what happened at the fire.


                and not to pick on anyone, since it seems like it is a problem nationwide. We forget the basics and get caught up in other more "advanced skills". People who can't stretch a flat load without F'ing it up, are probably going to RIT classes where they make a rube goldberg machine out of ropes and pulleys. We take on a lot of specialty rescue responsibilities and we don't get enough time to train on being firemen.
                Last edited by nameless; 07-24-2010, 09:03 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nameless View Post
                  lets not dump the brothers from Bridgeport in yet until we know what happened at the fire.


                  and not to pick on anyone, since it seems like it is a problem nationwide. We forget the basics and get caught up in other more "advanced skills". People who can't stretch a flat load without F'ing it up, are probably going to RIT classes where they make a rube goldberg machine out of ropes and pulleys. We take on a lot of specialty rescue responsibilities and we don't get enough time to train on being firemen.
                  Well stated, well done.

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                  • #10
                    I concur and I wasn't throwing the CT brothers into the mix. Just the deaths in general without knowing what happen bother me.

                    As a bunch of us said recently at a week long training class "We all train in this specialty stuff, but we seem to forget about the basics to keep us out of these situations".

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                    • #11
                      Alot of it has to do with lets get back to the basic's of training. We no longer focus on enough of basic firefighting techniques. We would rather train on the newer type technical things that are out there. When we have guys who would benefit more from putting on an air pack and and being blacked out and put in a building to do some search and rescue training or just put them on a hose line and tell them to find there way out.

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                      • #12
                        I think it is a leadership issue. Today's culture has leaders to afraid to "hurt" someone's feelings rather than correcting harmful behavior. Heaven forbid we hurt little Johnny Q. Fireman's feelings by telling him he drives to fast, doesn't wear PPE correctly, or blow off the fact that he pencil-whips his morning airpack check each morning. If leaders stood up for what is right, I bet we would cut by 1/3 the number of LODD and half the on job injuries.

                        I step down off the soap box.
                        ~Drew
                        Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
                        USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FiremanLyman View Post
                          I step down off the soap box.
                          Sir the gentleman from Louisiana would like to yield his time to the gentleman from the great state of Texas.
                          Sir continue with your testimony.

                          All seriousness finish what you were saying. The young bucks on here need to be told exactly what you are saying.

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                          • #14
                            Getting hurt

                            A serious danger to firefighters is operating on public roadways for extrication and vehicle fires.

                            We all know what it feels like operating on a public roadway with vehicles wizzing by several feet away. In my honest opinion, more highways should have reduced speed. Whether it is reduced at night, certain times of the year (like winter where the roads are icy), curves or other times, this needs to be done to reduce accidents.

                            Of course, enforcement of the speed limit needs to be done by LE. There are way too many vehicle accidents and then we are called out there to work them (extrication, EMS, etc.) and then we are put in extreme danger from the highway traffic.

                            We can only do so much wearing hi-visibility vests, parking apparatus to protect the scene from oncoming traffic and other measures.

                            Motorists need to be driving according to the weather and road conditions. Not driving with the accelerator pedal pushed through the floorboard!
                            Last edited by FIRE117; 07-24-2010, 10:42 PM. Reason: spelling

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Acklan View Post
                              Sir the gentleman from Louisiana would like to yield his time to the gentleman from the great state of Texas.
                              Sir continue with your testimony.

                              All seriousness finish what you were saying. The young bucks on here need to be told exactly what you are saying.
                              It is not the young bucks that need the kick in the teeth. It is the Lieutenants and Captains that are afraid of not being their firefighter's "buddy." Oh, they want their crew to like them so much that they let them do stupid things with no repercussions. Then when someone gets hurt we all run around and ask how did this happen? How did it happen, YOU numbskull, let your firefighters run around like they rule the place.

                              It isn't a Generation X thing, it isn't anything about how to bridge the generation gap. I've been to these classes, they are all B.S. The fact remains that to lead you have to have two faces; your buddy face, where you get to sit at the breakfast table and talk about all things fun and shiny, and the leader face where you got to sit down at the desk and explain to a person why their actions are out of line.

                              Done with this... My Irish is starting to rise.
                              ~Drew
                              Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
                              USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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