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  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by tree68 View Post
    I don't doubt that a bit.

    I would submit that any city department should be saying, "Listen, we know that the income is down X%, so we're willing to do our part by dealing with that much reduction, as long as everyone else is subjected to the same cut."
    Problem is many of us have been saying this and holding the line at zero for too many years now. There's zero fat in most budgets and cost overruns in lines are anticipated but still underfunded to make the numbers look good at the polls. Face it "fair" is only a part of the "Fairy Tale", of which municipal budgets cannot be. At some point "everyone cannot cut the same percentages", as the largest budgets take the deepest hits and lose the most services. Municipal bodies must provide basic necessities to their taxpayers: fire, LE, EMS, roads/streets, and basic city hall functions, everything else places a distance second. The problem is the service levels are so deplorable in so many places that those who are cutting need only look on the web for 5 minutes to cite numerous places with smaller staff and equipment to prove their cuts are 'acceptable service" elsewhere.

    Sadly, the people are going to be forced to decide what they can afford, and when 90% haven't had a fire directly affect them, they don't feel the need. But their kids go to the public pool and libraries, so we have to fund them, who else will be their public babysitters.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 08-10-2010, 09:55 AM.

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  • BW21
    replied
    Originally posted by mrpita View Post
    DON'T get me started...
    haha we won't! I dont wanna see pita get mad and kill anyone

    Leave a comment:


  • mrpita
    replied
    DON'T get me started...

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    We knew that this was going to happen. Only time would tell when.


    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_...lphia_boy.html


    Neighbors fault city's Fire Department brownout policy in death of West Philadelphia boy
    By Rita Giordano
    Inquirer Staff Writer

    A 12-year-old autistic child who died in a West Philadelphia rowhouse fire Saturday night might still be alive if not for a recent city policy of temporarily shutting firehouses to save money, the head of the firefighters union and community members said Sunday.

    "This is just a Russian roulette game, and now a kid is dead," said Bill Gault, president of Local 22 of the International Association of Fire Fighters.
    The city's top fire official, however, defended his department's response time and faulted a lack of functioning smoke detectors in the house and a possible delay in reporting the blaze.

    "It had nothing to do with the brownouts," Fire Commissioner Lloyd Ayers said Sunday, referring to the closure policy prompted by a $3.8 million budget gap.
    The dead child, whom neighbors knew as Frank, was found on the second floor of 137 S. 55th St., fire officials said. His mother had escaped to the porch roof, they said.

    The fire damaged at least five other rowhouses on the block and displaced 15 people. Two firefighters and the boy's mother were injured.
    The fire was reported at 6:51 p.m. Saturday, fire officials said.
    Engine 57, the closest fire company, had been on brownout that day and went back into service at 6 p.m., Ayers said.

    But at time of the fire, the engine was en route to pick up apparatus at a department repair shop at Front Street and Hunting Park Avenue, he said.
    Instead, Engine 68, based near 52d and Willows Streets farther away, was first on the scene. Ayers said it got there in three minutes, which he said was a good response time.

    Gault and community members, however, said they did not believe the engine got there that quickly and said there appeared to have been a delay of some minutes in getting water on the fire.

    "Our whole job is about response time," Gault said.
    Ayers said that the engine had water on board and that people's perceptions during an emergency can be distorted.

    Community members, however, said the outcome would have been different if Engine 57 had been in the area.

    "Fifty-seven would have been here in a minute, easily," said Joe Carroll, 49, of Delaware, dealing with damage to his mother's house. The fire, he said, "wouldn't have caused as much damage, it wouldn't have spread this far, and that little boy might be alive today."

    "That's a terrible way to save money. . . . We need our police and firemen," said Virginia DeShields, 67, whose porch roof three doors away was fire-damaged.

    DeShields said a man who she thought lived with the boy and his mother told her that he tried to save him but that the child got away from him.
    "He said, 'I had Frank, but he was fighting me. He was scared,' " DeShields said.

    DeShields and her granddaughter Shinda DeShields, 24, of Upper Darby, said the boy and his mother moved in about a year ago. They kept to themselves and the boy could not speak, but Shinda DeShields said the child had started to play with some of the neighborhood children. He had a large collection of balls he loved to play with, as well as a doll of the Toy Story character Woody that he toted around with him, the women said.

    "He used to drag Woody around all the time," the elder DeShields said. "He'd kiss Woody."

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  • tree68
    replied
    Originally posted by FireFuss
    When the mayor takes money from your department to fund his "social programs", all he is doing is securing his votes for the next term from the same worthless gitbags that voted for him the first time, and pay no attention to whats going on in this city besides whats outside their front door.
    Yep. Politics as usual.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jasper 45
    replied
    Originally posted by FireFuss
    3 days after the closures, the mayor gave $13 million from the city budget to a section of north philadelphia for "beautification" and another $19 million to a section of west Philly for the same thing. Basically, he gave a bunch of jobless welfare sucking scumbags money to fix up their houses and plant a couple trees in the dirt they call parks out there. As of today, I know 3 of the renovated houses in N. Philly have burned to the ground. I don't know where they neighborhood in W. Philly was but I'm sure they're nt doing much better.

    Flowers in the boulevards will ALWAYS be more important than firemen on line companies. That is a fact.
    We, in Local-215 feel your pain and support Local-22 completely.

    Leave a comment:


  • BW21
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    I came from a dept that had aides and ran with 5 on the Truck.


    Why cut your throat? Truck Co's should never run with less than 5 and same for Engines!

    Plus Philly probably has more rowhouses than gfpd ever saw.
    exactly Capt, I just think the biggest problem is just that people who arent from dense population bases dont quite understand why those of us who are need the staffing so much. It's a completely different thing to run 4 on a ladder or 3 on an engine for an open country farm house.. but when you have a block of 25 Row homes built in 1910 with no fire stops.. the extra men are needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREMECH1
    replied
    Looks like our department may be getting a piece of the ax as well.

    The below is what is what is coming from the Mayors office, and/or, the City Council. The three below are grouped together as a single action, and are not options (as of now). As well, there are smaller items that are noteworthy, but are unclear at this time.

    Budget cut of $5 million.

    50-60 FF's laid off.

    3 Engine companies removed.

    The staffing of trucks and engines will remain at 4. Rumor also has it that some divisions may go to privatization, such as fire investigators, and a couple others. But that is just "hear say" at the moment.

    FM1

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    Originally posted by sfd1992 View Post
    Pretty harsh words OldTimer. I think nationwide there would be more depts that DON'T have Chief's Aides than do, and probably more that run 4 (or less) on a ladder company than run 5+. GFPD2005 was just asking if they had explored options for keeping companies open, comparing him to the Crow was a bit much.

    And I'm pretty sure his library comment was facetious.....but hard to tell on here.
    I came from a dept that had aides and ran with 5 on the Truck.


    Why cut your throat? Truck Co's should never run with less than 5 and same for Engines!

    Plus Philly probably has more rowhouses than gfpd ever saw.

    Leave a comment:


  • FireMedic049
    replied
    Originally posted by tree68 View Post
    Hey - let's jut look at the bottom line, literally. Last year your allowance was $2.00 a week. This year it's $1.75. That is not negotiable. Figure out how to make that $1.75 last. It might mean you only buy 4 packs of bubble gum instead of 5, or buy the bubble gum without the baseball cards. Your choice.
    Actually, a better way to make your point would be this........

    With that $2 you normally buy 2 packs of gum, 1 candy bar, a bag of chips and a drink. Now, you only have $1.75 and can no longer afford everything that you usually purchased.

    Since you no longer can afford everything, you need to make some changes in your purchasing habits. What do you cut? Maybe you cut out a pack of gum since you have a lot of it? Maybe you can buy a smaller bag of chips? Maybe you cut out the drink and hope the chips aren't too salty?

    The city of Philadelphia apparently doesn't have the money to pay for fire protection at its current level. We can talk until we're blue in the face about ideal staffing levels, response time, et al, but that isn't going to make any money appear.
    See this is part of the problem, the belief or assertion that a municipality "doesn't have the money" to maintain its current protection levels. The reality is the municipality may in fact have enough money to maintain their current fire protection, however doing so might mean making a cut somewhere else - like the community pool, park, library, paving less streets each year, etc.

    Ultimately it's a matter of prioritization and too often it seems that public safety is not a priority.

    No, it's not how we ought to be doing business, but it appears to be how we will have to do business. So we have to deal with it and figure out how to do the best job we can with what we have to work with.

    Firefighters tend to be pretty good at that.
    In the end, we'll do just that. However, we still have to fight the fight.

    Leave a comment:


  • sfd1992
    replied
    Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    From that statement you have never been around a department or with one that had chief aides. If you had, you wouldn't have made such a dumb statement.
    Pretty harsh words OldTimer. I think nationwide there would be more depts that DON'T have Chief's Aides than do, and probably more that run 4 (or less) on a ladder company than run 5+. GFPD2005 was just asking if they had explored options for keeping companies open, comparing him to the Crow was a bit much.

    And I'm pretty sure his library comment was facetious.....but hard to tell on here.

    Leave a comment:


  • tree68
    replied
    Originally posted by nameless View Post
    The problem is we aren't losing X% of our budget because they city is reducing their budget by X%. Often times City Hall is reducing the percent of the budget allocated to the fire department. They are make the conscious decision to take money from our budget to increase the budget of other departments. The money is almost always there, the fire department needs to advocate for it. Not say "oh we'll do our part, lets stretch ourselves even thinner guys."
    I don't doubt that a bit.

    It is said that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

    Still, rather than saying "OMG, they're gonna cut us! Buildngs will burn! People will die!" (Which is true, but...) I would submit that any city department should be saying, "Listen, we know that the income is down X%, so we're willing to do our part by dealing with that much reduction, as long as everyone else is subjected to the same cut."

    If that means that in addition to rolling fire department "brownouts" there will be rolling pool and library closings, etc., so be it. Let everyone feel the pain...

    Leave a comment:


  • nameless
    replied
    Originally posted by tree68 View Post
    Hey - let's jut look at the bottom line, literally. Last year your allowance was $2.00 a week. This year it's $1.75. That is not negotiable. Figure out how to make that $1.75 last. It might mean you only buy 4 packs of bubble gum instead of 5, or buy the bubble gum without the baseball cards. Your choice.

    The city of Philadelphia apparently doesn't have the money to pay for fire protection at its current level. We can talk until we're blue in the face about ideal staffing levels, response time, et al, but that isn't going to make any money appear.

    No, it's not how we ought to be doing business, but it appears to be how we will have to do business. So we have to deal with it and figure out how to do the best job we can with what we have to work with.

    Firefighters tend to be pretty good at that.

    The problem is we aren't losing X% of our budget because they city is reducing their budget by X%. Often times City Hall is reducing the percent of the budget allocated to the fire department. They are make the conscious decision to take money from our budget to increase the budget of other departments. The money is almost always there, the fire department needs to advocate for it. Not say "oh we'll do our part, lets stretch ourselves even thinner guys."

    Leave a comment:


  • ScareCrow57
    replied
    Originally posted by tree68 View Post
    Hey - let's jut look at the bottom line, literally. Last year your allowance was $2.00 a week. This year it's $1.75. That is not negotiable. Figure out how to make that $1.75 last. It might mean you only buy 4 packs of bubble gum instead of 5, or buy the bubble gum without the baseball cards. Your choice.

    The city of Philadelphia apparently doesn't have the money to pay for fire protection at its current level. We can talk until we're blue in the face about ideal staffing levels, response time, et al, but that isn't going to make any money appear.

    No, it's not how we ought to be doing business, but it appears to be how we will have to do business. So we have to deal with it and figure out how to do the best job we can with what we have to work with.

    Firefighters tend to be pretty good at that.
    Very well said.

    Leave a comment:


  • tree68
    replied
    Hey - let's jut look at the bottom line, literally. Last year your allowance was $2.00 a week. This year it's $1.75. That is not negotiable. Figure out how to make that $1.75 last. It might mean you only buy 4 packs of bubble gum instead of 5, or buy the bubble gum without the baseball cards. Your choice.

    The city of Philadelphia apparently doesn't have the money to pay for fire protection at its current level. We can talk until we're blue in the face about ideal staffing levels, response time, et al, but that isn't going to make any money appear.

    No, it's not how we ought to be doing business, but it appears to be how we will have to do business. So we have to deal with it and figure out how to do the best job we can with what we have to work with.

    Firefighters tend to be pretty good at that.

    Leave a comment:

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