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  • Need some Help!!

    Iam new to being a Fire Chief i won in December by 1 vote. The Assistant Chief has been a thorn in my side ever since he was the one who lost.And now with my luck he is a member of the Borough Council and with there help are trying to remove me of Chief.We do recive tax money from the Borough I guess my question is is it legal for them to do this? any help would be great thank you so much

  • #2
    Need FD bylaws, city charter, state laws, etc. Not near enough info here to make an informed comment.

    But to be brutally honest, just from reading this post, it doesn't look good. Not because of the situation, but simply because of spelling, gramatical errors, punctuation, etc.....
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    • #3
      It seems that we had a question like this on here before.

      Check the by-laws of your department. You may be a short lived chief, unless you can find something to help you.
      Stay Safe and Well Out There....

      Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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      • #4
        Sounds like you in a pickle boy.

        Seriously, you have landed in a very tough situation, and it isn't going to be easy. Obviously almost half of the department wanted the other guy, and he has the power at the next level.

        It sounds like a conflict of interest to me, but if there are no rules currently against it, good luck. You'll need it.
        Train to fight the fires you fight.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MarcusKspn View Post
          Need FD bylaws, city charter, state laws, etc. Not near enough info here to make an informed comment.

          But to be brutally honest, just from reading this post, it doesn't look good. Not because of the situation, but simply because of spelling, gramatical errors, punctuation, etc.....
          My thoughts exactly. Of course as happens every time I do this; it is grammatical.

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          • #6
            The question I have is how can someone be a board member and a fire officer, sounds like conflict of interest. Here it is illegal two hold both positions. The assistant chief should give up one possition.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by HAFD112 View Post
              The question I have is how can someone be a board member and a fire officer, sounds like conflict of interest. Here it is illegal two hold both positions. The assistant chief should give up one position.
              In NY it's illegal for a person to be both a fire chief and a member of the board of fire commissioners that governs the fire department, but there is no prohibition that I know of against someone being on a town or village board or any other level of elected office.

              This situation is not a whole lot different than going against the "clique." You may have won the election, but it's gonna be a war from here on out. Been there, done that.
              Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

              Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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              • #8
                Of course, one could look at the election of Chief as being something that maybe should be changed - make it no longer a popularity contest as many are, and promote the most qualified person?


                Whats that line from the song... "Lets get it started in here"

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                • #9
                  [QUOTE=LVFD301;1189257]Of course, one could look at the election of Chief as being something that maybe should be changed - make it no longer a popularity contest as many are, and promote the most qualified person?



                  Very true, But to change the by-laws you need a popular vote of all members. A battle I'm facing right now. Wish me luck.

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                  • #10
                    As others have stated, there simply is not enough information on here to render solid opinions. First and foremost, what are the policies, procedures and bylaws that administer your organization and handle situations like this?

                    Next thing I would want to know, is exactly how much power does Borough Council have over control of the Fire Department? Just because they give you money does not mean that they have any say whatsoever in your operations or administration. You mention "Borough." Are you in Pennsylvania by any chance? If you are an incorporated operation, independent of the Bourough Council (which I suspect you are) they have zilch control over you, other than hanging money over your head, which he would have some serious explaining to do if he tried.

                    Is the Asst Chief elected by the membership or appointed by you? If he is causing that much trouble, and making life miserable, he is guilty of "Conduct Unbecoming" and in my opinion should be made aware that his actions are causing discontent among the troops. If I were the Boss, and he were against me to the point that he is causing disruptions in the operation, I would promptly show him the door. He doesn't have to like me, he just has to go along with me.
                    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Get a lawyer and ask him your possible moves in this situation. If he responds in a way that makes it sound like you may win then go to the next Borough meeting and let them know you have retained counsel and he is investigating conflict of interest and the illegal attempt to remove you from office.

                      Shove it right back at them and let your AC know that you know exactly what he is doing.

                      Of course the reality is it is a volunteer position with most likely little or no compensation...so how much is a battle really worth to you?
                      Crazy, but that's how it goes
                      Millions of people living as foes
                      Maybe it's not too late
                      To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by resq992 View Post
                        Iam new to being a Fire Chief i won in December by 1 vote. The Assistant Chief has been a thorn in my side ever since he was the one who lost.And now with my luck he is a member of the Borough Council and with there help are trying to remove me of Chief.We do recive tax money from the Borough I guess my question is is it legal for them to do this? any help would be great thank you so much
                        Since you were voted in wouldn't you need to be voted out at the next election??

                        To remove you they must have reasonable cause, do they?
                        My wise and profound comments and opinions are mine alone and are in no way associated with any other individual or group.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Went to to Borough Today and got a copy of the contract here is what its says.
                          Waiver of Jurisdiction

                          The signing of this contract, and or paying of the fire protection fee by the SECOND PARTY, (Borough) does not in any way give the SECOND PARTY (Borough) the right,power, or authority to govern, regulate, or control the Fire Department or the Fire Department officers and firefighters of the FIRST PARTY (FIRE DEPARTMENT ). The SECOND PARTY (Borough) does hereby waive all such jurisdiction over the FIRST PARTY (FIRE DEPARTMENT) by executing this contract.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            To answer a few questions
                            Yes we are in Pennsylvania and are incorporated operation, independent of the Bourough Council
                            Asst Chief elected by the membership
                            I did nothing wrong but run for Fire Chief.The guys and girls who voted for me are the ones running in to the fire's.The retired Fire Chief and 2nd Asst Chief voted for me.The life time members voted for him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sounds like unless you are grossly negligent in your duties then they will have to wait until the next election to vote you out.

                              Have they given a reason as to why they want you out?? Is there a particuliar policy in dispute? If so maybe you can comprimise. Or is it merely sour grapes on their part for losing the election?

                              I assume the term Bourough is the same as what we call a district? If the Bourough has no juristiction over your department then who does? Do you have a board of supervisors or???

                              In our area the fire protection district works independantly of the city and has it's own governing board and geographical area. Removal of our chief would either have to be by a regular vote of the membership or an order by the fire district board of supervisors.
                              Last edited by Blulakr; 07-15-2010, 02:40 PM.
                              My wise and profound comments and opinions are mine alone and are in no way associated with any other individual or group.

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