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  • Help with Hose loads

    Ok brothers and sisters, I am looking for some photos, or videos of how to properly load a minuteman load or "philly" load.
    I am working on putting together some ideas for easier loads on our trucks. Right now we load everything in a flat load and I am tired of the "bowl of spagetti" that happens with the flat load cross lay when we unload it.
    I really like the cleveland load but since most of our trucks have room for a double stack the cleveland load seems impractical.
    Any help would be appreciated

  • #2
    If you want to see a bowl of spaghetti, pull a "minuteman" wrong.

    We stay with a flat load in our preconnects (with two or three pull loops) because it can be laid by just about anyone (and I may well have mutual aid folks or rookies helping pack it back up), and it doesn't matter if someone pulls a loop or the nozzle off the top.

    KISS applies, unless you're well drilled on pulling it and laying it back in.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tree68 View Post
      KISS applies, unless you're well drilled on pulling it and laying it back in.
      I agree with that!!! I love the simplicity of the triple layer load for packing and deployment HOWEVER: it does take some practice to pack / pull it...

      Simple flat load is probably best...

      Comment


      • #4
        Triple load.... definitely the way to go. walk 66ft away from the truck and a 200 ft cross lay is deployed in a Z fashion. We used the minute man for years until I was shown the triple load. I approached the chief with this thought process:

        1. with back injuries being an easy occurance why are we putting an additional load of 150ft of 1.75 when you don't have to carry any of the load in a triple load.

        2. You arent runing two houses down trying to lay off the 150ft on your back just to get to the door, just go 66ft away from the truck and its ready.
        Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?” (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

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        • #5
          FYI what's normally referred to as the "Philly Load" is the triple layer load. And just like the "Cleveland Load" according to the guys who work in those cities nither load came from there.

          I love the triple layer. We ran flat loads for the last 60 years in my volunteer department. It took me one night and one evolution of loading and deploying the triple layer to have everyone sold on it. We now use it for all speedlays and the 2 1/2" preconnect on the rear. With the paid department, we are using the Minuteman for everything. Triple layer was not recieved well by the guys who are set in thier ways here. Both departments are using the Cleveland for high rise packs.

          It may take a little time training with the new load, but in the long run it will be worth it. Flat load is an outdated and lazy way of loading hose. This video proves that.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njrJAOfz0ho
          Career Firefighter
          Volunteer Captain

          -Professional in Either Role-

          Originally posted by Rescue101
          I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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          • #6
            Thanks

            Ok, thanks guys for the info. We run a small comination dept, and looking for things that definately fall under the KISS method. We have several guys with injuries and I am always looking for ways to IMPROVE what we do, and not doing something just because its always been done that way.

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            • #7
              it sounds like you need to practice deploying hose lines. I don't want to sound harsh but if spaghetti is the problem its not the hose load, its the people. There may be other loads better suited for the neighborhoods you run in, but spaghetti is the fault of the firefighter and not the hose load.


              Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
              It may take a little time training with the new load, but in the long run it will be worth it. Flat load is an outdated and lazy way of loading hose. This video proves that.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njrJAOfz0ho
              That statement is so off base and idiotic. The flat load has its advantages in certain situations, just like the other loads do. All that video shows is that the "philly load" is better if I'm going to stretch a line straight off the back of the engine for 50-60ft. Also the alleged fireman stretching the flat load did it horribly. That video proves that dept. has their mind made up and needed a crappy video to prove to themselves they are right.

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              • #8
                The minute man is nice. We have been doing the triple layer for a while now. Works well for us and it works out ok when the excited pump operater charges a line just a bit to early.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nameless View Post




                  That statement is so off base and idiotic. The flat load has its advantages in certain situations, just like the other loads do. All that video shows is that the "philly load" is better if I'm going to stretch a line straight off the back of the engine for 50-60ft. Also the alleged fireman stretching the flat load did it horribly. That video proves that dept. has their mind made up and needed a crappy video to prove to themselves they are right.
                  I can think of no situation where I would want a flat load over any of the others. More so when you have one man normally pulling your lines by himself. I have yet to have problems deploying a triple layer from directions other than straight off the truck. As long as it is loaded right, it will deploy right.

                  Most people use the flat load becuase it takes pretty much no training to load and deploy and that is what people have used for years becuase that's all they knew. Any monkey can load a hose flat loaded. The same monkey can deploy it. It takes effort to learn any other load, and that's why most oppose it. If that is off base and idiotic, then so be it. But thanks for lowering the overall intelligence level of the thread with name calling.
                  Career Firefighter
                  Volunteer Captain

                  -Professional in Either Role-

                  Originally posted by Rescue101
                  I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The key is I said you're statement was idiotic, not you. Very big difference.

                    If any "monkey" can deploy a flat load, then why do people whine and complain about it creating spaghetti and being too hard to deploy? You are right that it isn't the best fit for one man deployments, but it is a very useful load in urban environments. Especially when you have a larger hose bed and often are breaking the lines down to shorter lengths.

                    I'd say the grab the loops and walk hose loads are the ones the monkeys can deploy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nameless View Post

                      If any "monkey" can deploy a flat load, then why do people whine and complain about it creating spaghetti and being too hard to deploy?.
                      Comination of a training issue and laziness. Even the ones who know how to pull it right will often grab the bottom loops and create that pile at the truck. I can't make someone not be lazy, but I can put a load on the truck that even the laziest POS on the department can pull without screwing up.

                      Originally posted by nameless View Post
                      You are right that it isn't the best fit for one man deployments, but it is a very useful load in urban environments. Especially when you have a larger hose bed and often are breaking the lines down to shorter lengths..
                      Is this a preconnected situation or a static bed? Static bed I agree with you.
                      Career Firefighter
                      Volunteer Captain

                      -Professional in Either Role-

                      Originally posted by Rescue101
                      I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And.......

                        Don't reinvent the same old wheel again. Got a Preconnect Discharge? couple a section of Hose to it, and fold it in flat, then continue adding more sections of hose until you have enough. Put a Nozzle on the end, and leave the Nozzle laying on top of the Load. When you need that line, take the nozzle and go. Trust Me, the Hose WILL follow you. The driver checks the bed to be sure it's empty, then charges the line. KISS........
                        Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
                        In memory of
                        Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
                        Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

                        IACOJ Budget Analyst

                        I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

                        www.gdvfd18.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
                          Is this a preconnected situation or a static bed? Static bed I agree with you.
                          The beds that are preconnects usually have 250 ft sometimes 300, so we often find ourselves using it like a static bed even though its preconnected.


                          Maybe I'm taking the wrong way, but the attitude that flat loads make spaghetti so we'll just find an easier load seems so wrong. We're suppose to be firemen, we should be able to handle stretching a line. Understaffed places that need 1 guy to easily stretch is one thing, but people screwing up flat loads is entirely different. Lets be good at the basics of firefighting.
                          Last edited by nameless; 07-06-2010, 07:38 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
                            It may take a little time training with the new load, but in the long run it will be worth it. Flat load is an outdated and lazy way of loading hose. This video proves that.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njrJAOfz0ho
                            that was a lame video, and I probably wont be off base in saying no one has come off a truck to fight a fire like that. Even thought the triple lay is nice, you should still take time to flake the hose properly at the door or atleast bring the first coupling so you dont have to advance all 65+ feet of hose or more if your stretching farther. "Rushing " will usually make things longer/harder in the end.

                            Take time to make time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Flat load: face the pump panel/preconnect. Pull the load onto your shoulder while turning away from the panel. the line will deploy nice and easy...

                              I swear we make things more difficult than they have to be... work SMARTER, not HARDER!
                              ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
                              Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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