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Indy Fire Merger Raises Diversity Concerns

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  • BULL321
    replied
    Originally posted by CrnkB8 View Post
    What's next? Each position on the apparatus has to represent the demographics? (i.e. african-american captain, female engineer, caucasian firefighter and hispanic paramedic)
    It will just like watching the 6 o'clock news, Now to CrnkB8 for the weather.

    Its just a load of crap and does nothing for the fire fire service at all but create trouble that we don't need.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputyMarshal
    replied
    If there's a "diversity problem" after the merger, doesn't that logically imply that there was a "diversity problem" before the merger as well? After all, the communities represented by the new merged department have merged as well, haven't they?

    Leave a comment:


  • jam24u
    replied
    Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Agreed. What a crock of crap.
    I too agree.

    Funny how some have a reversed opinion within the 'noose knot' thread. They say it has political correctness implications case closed. This issue borders on the same theory and it involves PC. The imbalance of race within a department because certain groups are going to take offense. Those who said the noose knot was a sign of racism (cased closed) now say that an imbalance in race within Indy's fire department should not be viewed from a racism standpoint, but from a practical standpoint, as it should be.

    The situation of Indy absorbing other departments is just logical and any cries of improper balance of race within is not practical.

    The noose knot is the same. do not allow any connotations of racism to be allowed. It is just a knot and Indy's absorbing of other departments is just being done for practical reasons and racial claims are not logical.

    Leave a comment:


  • fieldseng2
    replied
    It is stuff like this that keeps racism alive and well in this country. When people start dividing up firefighters as white and black and not just firefighters. Racism and it's divide stay around!
    I couldnt have said it better myself. I have seen this first hand from BOTH sides.

    Leave a comment:


  • len1582
    replied
    Originally posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Agreed. What a crock of crap.
    I also agree 100%.

    Originally posted by hwoods View Post
    What the He11 ever happened to Recruiting FIREFIGHTERS???....... Waste of Time AND MONEY.

    Sudden Thought: Budget woes?? Close Recruiting Offices, Bet most "Big City Paid Depts" won't notice any decline in Applications.
    I Absoultely agree sir

    Originally posted by FireFuss
    The problem with that is most of the guys/gals in the "recruiter" spots are ducks and scared to fight fire anyways.
    I won't disagree

    Originally posted by rm1524 View Post
    .. I have seen some of the 'college boys' and they leave alot to be desired. Some of them are know it alls and want to reinvent the wheel so to speak.
    So right. It is good to continue your education. But. Book 'smarts' doesn't equal experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • BW21
    replied
    I just dont understand why it cant be accepted that there is a demographic that is more prone to apply for the job while others just simply dont want to be firefighters?

    I think its just the new generations of people have a sense of entitlement to everything and if someone doesn't score high enough to get a job they act like they are being singled out....

    Leave a comment:


  • auxman
    replied
    Seems pretty unreasonable to get upset about this particular situation. When you're merging organizations you have to deal with the people that come with that one being added. Can't expect to maintain everything as-is in the short run.

    Leave a comment:


  • rm1524
    replied
    Originally posted by edpmedic View Post
    Back in the day the FDNY wanted two years of college just to apply. Then it was one year. Now it's 15 credits or six months work experience. There's also the backdoor FDNY EMS > FF promotion. These hiring practices, among other things, were created to make the job available to more minorities. I know that many PD's want two to four years college to apply. There's also the whole CPAT thing, watered down as it is for other protected classes.

    Most of us are in agreement that it should be the best person for the job. the problem is that some of us want to be more equal than others. So, my thought is that it should be mandatory, or at least preferred to have a job related degree to apply for the job. Fire science, emergency management, EMS AAS, kinesiology, CSCS, automotive, something that is useful to the job. No, having a degree doesn't make one God's gift to the fire service, nor does it necessarily mean that they'll do better on the job than their uneducated counterpart. What it does mean is that the applicant can read and write at the college level, can demonstrate the ability to set goals and complete them, and that they'll also bring useful knowledge/skill sets to the job. You'll weed out quite a few that thing a fire job is "cool", "something to try out, just for a goof", those that just want to take the easy road to a good schedule and pay, basically anyone who wants the job to be handed over to them like a mint on a pillow. If you require a degree just to apply, many who wouldn't be worth much to begin with will see that as too much of a hassle and look for something easier. If you want the job so bad, a two year degree shouldn't be too much to ask. Apply one year in or so, and finish up while completing the process. Speed it up with summer classes if you want. Fire science is all online, for crying out loud.

    Another thing, our pensions, benefits, station life, etc. are under much scrutiny nowadays, with people losing their homes, shirts off their backs and all. We're essentially unskilled labor. Really, many depts only require a GED, a reasonably clean license, and no felonies. At least if you can say that everyone coming in has at least a two year degree, you can make a better case for what you're getting in pay, bennies, retirement, etc.
    While all that may be true. I have seen some of the 'college boys' and they leave alot to be desired. Some of them are know it alls and want to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Most of the guys with 'just' a high school education seem to have a better handle on how to work and how to figure out things when everything goes south.

    Leave a comment:


  • edpmedic
    replied
    Back in the day the FDNY wanted two years of college just to apply. Then it was one year. Now it's 15 credits or six months work experience. There's also the backdoor FDNY EMS > FF promotion. These hiring practices, among other things, were created to make the job available to more minorities. I know that many PD's want two to four years college to apply. There's also the whole CPAT thing, watered down as it is for other protected classes.

    Most of us are in agreement that it should be the best person for the job. the problem is that some of us want to be more equal than others. So, my thought is that it should be mandatory, or at least preferred to have a job related degree to apply for the job. Fire science, emergency management, EMS AAS, kinesiology, CSCS, automotive, something that is useful to the job. No, having a degree doesn't make one God's gift to the fire service, nor does it necessarily mean that they'll do better on the job than their uneducated counterpart. What it does mean is that the applicant can read and write at the college level, can demonstrate the ability to set goals and complete them, and that they'll also bring useful knowledge/skill sets to the job. You'll weed out quite a few that thing a fire job is "cool", "something to try out, just for a goof", those that just want to take the easy road to a good schedule and pay, basically anyone who wants the job to be handed over to them like a mint on a pillow. If you require a degree just to apply, many who wouldn't be worth much to begin with will see that as too much of a hassle and look for something easier. If you want the job so bad, a two year degree shouldn't be too much to ask. Apply one year in or so, and finish up while completing the process. Speed it up with summer classes if you want. Fire science is all online, for crying out loud.

    Another thing, our pensions, benefits, station life, etc. are under much scrutiny nowadays, with people losing their homes, shirts off their backs and all. We're essentially unskilled labor. Really, many depts only require a GED, a reasonably clean license, and no felonies. At least if you can say that everyone coming in has at least a two year degree, you can make a better case for what you're getting in pay, bennies, retirement, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • rm1524
    replied
    Originally posted by hwoods View Post
    The line about "Recruiting Minorities" Drives me nuts (Of Course, it's a Short Drive) What the He11 ever happened to Recruiting FIREFIGHTERS??? I am not, in any way, taking a slap at anyone, rather I'm pointing out that the DESIRE to be a Firefighter is more important that Class Status..... There are Members of minority Classes out there who really want to be Firefighters, and I back them 100%. But why are Recruiters wandering thru Shopping Malls and Sports Arenas looking for Candidates for the FD (or VFD, no difference) when people voluntarily contact these FD's HR Offices every day, asking about Testing, etc........ Waste of Time AND MONEY.


    Sudden Thought: Budget woes?? Close Recruiting Offices, Bet most "Big City Paid Depts" won't notice any decline in Applications.......


    HAPPY 4TH EVERYONE, STAY SAFE.........
    Amen my brother.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tony4310
    replied
    It is stuff like this that keeps racism alive and well in this country. When people start dividing up firefighters as white and black and not just firefighters. Racism and it's divide stay around!

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptainGonzo
    replied
    Posted my Harve
    Sudden Thought: Budget woes?? Close Recruiting Offices, Bet most "Big City Paid Depts" won't notice any decline in Applications.......
    Amen, Harve... Put the firefighters assigned to "recruiting" back on the rigs where they belong.

    Leave a comment:


  • hwoods
    replied
    Well.............

    The line about "Recruiting Minorities" Drives me nuts (Of Course, it's a Short Drive) What the He11 ever happened to Recruiting FIREFIGHTERS??? I am not, in any way, taking a slap at anyone, rather I'm pointing out that the DESIRE to be a Firefighter is more important that Class Status..... There are Members of minority Classes out there who really want to be Firefighters, and I back them 100%. But why are Recruiters wandering thru Shopping Malls and Sports Arenas looking for Candidates for the FD (or VFD, no difference) when people voluntarily contact these FD's HR Offices every day, asking about Testing, etc........ Waste of Time AND MONEY.


    Sudden Thought: Budget woes?? Close Recruiting Offices, Bet most "Big City Paid Depts" won't notice any decline in Applications.......


    HAPPY 4TH EVERYONE, STAY SAFE.........

    Leave a comment:


  • CrnkB8
    replied
    Hard to believe some people still have this mentality. It's hard to hire people based on demographics if they don't apply for the job or can't make it through the hiring process. Sometimes, the ones hired find out the "job" isn't for them and they quit.

    What's next? Each position on the apparatus has to represent the demographics? (i.e. african-american captain, female engineer, caucasian firefighter and hispanic paramedic) Didn't New Haven just go through this? (promotonal process, not hiring. But it still revolves around minorities/demographics)

    Ironic how the article refers to blacks as "african-americans" but refers to the men/women as "whites". If we're going to be politically correct, shouldn't they be "caucasian"?

    I applaud IFD for being progressive and merging with other depts. They (IFD) are fortunate to be able to do this in such economic times and some personnel still find things to bitch about.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not racist or prejudiced. Just tired of seeing this as a foothold for jobs/promotions. JOB = BEST QUALIFIED/CAPABLE PERSON

    Leave a comment:


  • tree68
    replied
    PC run amok. Just bring 'em in and worry about restoring "balance" later...

    Leave a comment:

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