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Traffic vests or not?

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  • #16
    I have one I keep on my barn coat pretty much all year - especially during hunting season.....some people look at me funny if I run to the store etc, but oh well!

    Here too, if you respond to a highway that receives federal funding it is required.....even the NYS Troopers are wearing them!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by nmfire View Post
      The reflective material on bunker gear is not designed or intended for roadway safety. It is for seeing eachother at night. And once you go in a fire, that reflective material is compromised making it even more worthless for traffic safety.

      The standards governing the traffic vests that we are required to wear are far far far greater than what is on our gear. It isn't just reflective striping. It is also the florescent color of the vest. The standards require X square inches of hi-vis color such as the neon green and orange that you've seen plus a certain square inches of retroreflective striping and all of this has requirements for front, back, and side visibility.

      The vests have to be either ANSI 107 Class II or ANSI 207. The 207 standard is the "public safety vest" and it has some features like breakaway fasteners and side enclosures that won't interfere with belt mounted stuff like guns. The jacket like I have is ANSI 107 Class III which is the highest you can get. The Class III rating is because it is 360 degree with sleeves hi-visibility and reflective material.

      The "law" is a federal DOT requirement. It's touchy because it is an unfunded mandate with no enforcement. There is no way to actually enforce it, however it is required and for good reason.

      People who argue tooth and nail against wearing vests on the road suffer from a typical fire service mentality... "Hundreds of years of tradition uninhibited by progress." Younger people take it to it much easier. I thought traffic vests were really cool when I was a teenager in the department so I'm a big proponent of it now.
      That very well covers everthing I could have said, except for one thing. We wear yellow vests, not orange. Why? Because the construction barrels are orange and some people do aim for them. Don't look like a barrel!

      The vest does not take the place of watching out for your own ***. I've seen firefighters wander around the interstate like it's their front yard, and wonder why they get reprimanded. They just don't get the danger.

      You can tell which of us work in road construction. We're the ones who peek around the corner of the engine before walking out. Just in case. Always always always keep an eye on traffic, NO MATTER WHAT TRAFFIC CONTROL MEASURES ARE IN PLACE. Road closed means nothing to some people.
      We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by BKDRAFT View Post
        No we do not wear them. Mainly because they are inconvenient.
        When one of you gets plastered and the feds deny PSOB benefits because you weren't taking federally mandated precautions on a roadway, go with that. I'm honestly curious how it will pan out.

        Don't believe me? Life insurance companies have been known to deny payment to beneficiaries of MVA fatalities who weren't wearing a seatbelt. What makes you think the federal government will be more forgiving?

        Comment


        • #19
          Inconvenient or not, why not use a tool that may help save your life and limb?

          Ironically, the first firefighter killed in a highway incident after the law went into effect was wearing a vest...

          We generally wear them. Not all MVA situations require full turnouts, but anybody in the road should be protected.
          Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

          Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by emt161 View Post
            When one of you gets plastered and the feds deny PSOB benefits because you weren't taking federally mandated precautions on a roadway, go with that. I'm honestly curious how it will pan out.

            Don't believe me? Life insurance companies have been known to deny payment to beneficiaries of MVA fatalities who weren't wearing a seatbelt. What makes you think the federal government will be more forgiving?
            We just had our life insurance rep at our firehouse, and it is amazing the requirments one has to have,all the records ,and basicly all the "ducks" that have to be in a row before they even think about paying anyone any money for any LODD.Not to mention all the investagations that will be done after a death. That incident/scene will be pick apart more ways than most people can think of. Wether it be in a house or on a highway. So many many things I for one never thought about. Always assuming if something tragic happens to one of the other guys or myself, that we would just be covered and our families would be taken care of. It was a huge eye opener for me, and the things i do now, and the things i let the other members do under me. To think something as simple as just wearing a vest stopped a family from getting benifits after a loved one died......
            Fire scenes: A well organized cluster F......
            These are my veiws and opinions.....Im just saying

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Firehouse_Chick View Post
              More and more departments are making vests mandatory for the roadway. Does yours? Yes or no, and please explain the reasons or studies, ect...

              No? Not "all" believe the vest is more helpful than turnouts or even helps at all. I'm noticing a school of thought that believes your bunker gear reflective stripes are equivalent or actually better. others even think that traffic vests are hoopla and some believe that the concern to get everyone in a vest during a non -MVA/MVC scenario can even interfere with getting things done.

              Yes? Many do believe in vests and even wear them at structure fires, when they shut down highways and at car fires with their air packs on. some wear them almost every time they get off of the rig.

              Discuss...


              Why didn't you just go to the thread on this in the firefighter safety section????



              http://www.firehouse.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=318
              Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 12-19-2010, 12:33 PM.
              Stay Safe and Well Out There....

              Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by emt161 View Post
                When one of you gets plastered and the feds deny PSOB benefits because you weren't taking federally mandated precautions on a roadway, go with that. I'm honestly curious how it will pan out.

                Don't believe me? Life insurance companies have been known to deny payment to beneficiaries of MVA fatalities who weren't wearing a seatbelt. What makes you think the federal government will be more forgiving?
                Give me a break. Wearing a vest is not going to prevent someone from hitting me. Paying attention to where I am and where I am walking will.

                The CHP who are on the highway the most are taking an opposite approach. They are trying to blend in and not create hazards and distractions by flashing lights and reflectors.

                Using your analogy of not paying for benefits wouldn't happen either. Show me wear someone wasn't compensated for a cancer claim for not wearing an SCBA? How about for not wearing an OSHA/NFPA approved helmet?

                All the lights, stickers, reflectors, flares, and cones in the world will protect you more than keeping your head on a swivel.
                Last edited by BKDRAFT; 12-19-2010, 04:09 PM.

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                • #23
                  Our FD SOP/SOG is simple..... "If your feet hit the street, the vest is on your chest". As for vehicle fires, I don't honestly know. They don't wear them for structure fires.

                  I'm not with the FD, but I wear mine when doing roadside work. On scene, I don't.

                  FM1
                  I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

                  Originally posted by EastKyFF
                  "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BKDRAFT View Post
                    Give me a break. Wearing a vest is not going to prevent someone from hitting me. Paying attention to where I am and where I am walking will.

                    The CHP who are on the highway the most are taking an opposite approach. They are trying to blend in and not create hazards and distractions by flashing lights and reflectors.

                    Using your analogy of not paying for benefits wouldn't happen either. Show me wear someone wasn't compensated for a cancer claim for not wearing an SCBA? How about for not wearing an OSHA/NFPA approved helmet?

                    All the lights, stickers, reflectors, flares, and cones in the world will not protect you more than keeping your head on a swivel.
                    I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.
                    IAFF

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BKDRAFT View Post
                      Give me a break. Wearing a vest is not going to prevent someone from hitting me. Paying attention to where I am and where I am walking will.
                      Excuses...just put the thing on. The rest of us don't have any problems getting them on and off...wear it and give the public one more way to see you.

                      Show me wear someone wasn't compensated for a cancer claim for not wearing an SCBA?
                      Are you serious? We've got members of our department that have been in litigation for years having their cancer benefits denied - and we were one of the original presumption states.
                      Career Fire Captain
                      Volunteer Chief Officer


                      Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        On top of the post above, in some places it's actually required by the department's insurance carrier. And, if I'm not mistaken, BULL correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm new to firefighting in NC, it is NC state law that you wear one unless you are doing extrication or firefighting.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by snowball View Post
                          I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.
                          I like snowball and bkdraft's post the best.

                          Bkdraft, you sound a lot like my brother and his friends. PS, SFD is a breath of fresh air over there on the left coast.

                          Snowball, you're posts always lighten mood around here, always at the right moment. Through the humor, I also observe an understated command of the job. Talk backed with walk. I like you both particularly, you remind me of my bro and his "brothers".

                          Thanks for all the opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Btw, I know many will continue to reference my thread with fyred. I was abrasive. That's how I am. Please know, I'm not as bad as you think. In that thread, Fyred made a comment out of a moment of frustration. It was poor taste and I recognized he would prob regret it, so I deleted it. I don't wish grief on anyone and instinctively felt bad for him although the comment was insulting.

                            I am immature. When faced with his disagreement, my FDNY comment to him was akin to; "my dad can beat up your dad".

                            Fyred, thanks for your guidance. I'm used to an environment of verbal beatings and will never shy away from criticism.

                            Jonnee, you didn't read my post you quoted. I didn't state an opinions, I presented the info I knew of and asked for opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
                              On top of the post above, in some places it's actually required by the department's insurance carrier. And, if I'm not mistaken, BULL correct me if I'm wrong here as I'm new to firefighting in NC, it is NC state law that you wear one unless you are doing extrication or firefighting.
                              It's Not a State Law here in N.C. but. . . . . . . AND this is the way that it was presented to me and my Fire Dept. If you are operating on a federally funded Rd/hwy/interstate, you must wear a vest. The exceptions to the rule are as follows. If there is a fire or chance of a fire the FFs operating in the hot zone are not required to wear a vest. If the road is shut down only the flagmen at either end of the scene are the only ones required to wear a vest. As it applies to LEOs If I'm making a vehicle stop, I don't have to wear my reflective vest. If I am taking any type of law enforcement action, I don't have to wear my vest. (officer safety issue) But if I'm at work at the Sheriff's Office or at on a call for the Fire Dept. and on a road that receives Federal money then you have to wear a vest. That goes for everyone, EMS Rescue Squad, FF, LEOs, Wrecker Drivers, Dot workers whoever.

                              Since sometimes its hard to tell what roads receive fed funds, and it makes good sense our SOG's state that we wear our traffic vest at all incidents that occur on the roadway. The only exceptions are the ones listed above.
                              Stay Safe
                              Bull


                              “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
                              - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

                              Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
                              -WINSTON CHURCHILL

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by snowball View Post
                                I agree with this. We have them on the engines and trucks, usually wadded up under the back seat. Highway Patrol does not wear them here either. Proper apparatus placement and being alert will do a lot more than some redundant fishnet vest will.
                                If I can add a layer of protection, I will. We've had people (family members) bust through roadblocks to reach a scene. Anything that helps him/her see me in their excitement is a plus.
                                Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

                                Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

                                Comment

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