What if ???????

[Lt.Todd]

It's 03:00 hrs,your assigned as the RIT team at a working fire on a large two story frame.
Your suddenly told by the Captain of the first arriving truck that he has a man missing.He tell you they were working on the second floor,trying to pull ceiling,but the attic has double layed ply-wood flooring for storage purposes.
Your three man RIT team arrives on the second floor and hears a PASS device sounding.After a rapid search you find a attic ladder leading up into a 4x4 scuttle hole.Upon entry you discover a downed firefighter,with low air supply in the attic.
How do you get him out?

Remember you still have fire conditions on the first floor,and theres to much smoke to use a saw to cut the ply-wood.

Looking for some suggestions,to get this man out.

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[HHoffman]

I would have a crew ladder (or use a tower) the peak end of the attic and cut a hole to remove the firefighter. it would take to long to remove the firefighter back through the house. Sorry about the extra damage to the house.

[Dalmation90]

Good one!

First thoughts...I like Hoffman's answer, and it was along the lines of what I was initially thinking.

Notify command, of course. Move hoselines into a position to defend the 2nd floor at all costs. Vent like there is no tomorrow to relieve as much smoke as possible -- every bit of glass some truckie can find on the 2nd floor. Get a crew like Hoffman suggested cutting a large vent/removal hole on the side of the attic if possible, through the shingles if needed. Get someone headed up with a spare bottle.

But meanwhile, a 4x4 scuttle is pretty large -- seems to me you could have the RIT crew haul the firefighter there, have a FF cradle him down the ladder, than drag him to a window for removal via ground ladder (Tower basket if available ??)

Kinda a plan #1, plan #2 approach -- try and get him down the scuttle and to a window...if the guys complete cutting a 'door' into the attack first, then go out the new opening.

Matt

[EPFD-AL]

I was involved in a very similar incident. Here's what happened: The attic had no floor, just open joists; the firefighter we found had fallen partway through, and was stuck. Like Matt suggested above, we had command order additional horizontal venting, redirect hoselines, and they got a ground ladder to the second floor window. (Not into the window, just under it). Our RIT travels light; no saws, just a canvas bag with rope, a couple of carabiners, a halligan, Denver tool, and spare air bottles. He ran out of air just as we got to him. We changed his bottle, (just screwed on a full one), put a carabiner through both his air pac shoulder straps and used the rope to lower him through the attic ladder scuttle to the second floor and then out the window and down the ladder. It went pretty fast, considering we had no floor and were just kneeling on joists. He was more embarrassed than hurt. The spare bottle we screwed on him was swinging around and caught on the outside ladder, but that really wasn't a big problem. Changing that bottle was a little hard and took time. Now we throw a whole spare pack (we use Scott) in the bag too, and just twist on a new regulator when changing bottles can't be done. A seperate or cleared radio frequency would have helped; there was too much going on elsewhere and communication was rough. We had to yell and scream a lot. Now our RIT uses it's own channel with command, and we also now try to have 5 man teams (he was a little on the big side). I think it went well, and might work in this scenario too.

[Lieutenant Gonzo]

Dalamation 90 and Hoffman hit the nail right on the head!

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Take care and stay safe...Lt. Gonzo

[EPFD-AL]

One of the members of my company reminded me that another thing to do besides hooking or tying the shoulder straps with rope to lower the guy down is to take and open the waist belt on his SCBA, pass it through his legs and then buckle it back up. That way he can't fall out. We know that SCBA straps aren't any good for harnesses, but afterall, this is a rescue - and you got to get your brother or sister firefighter out asap.

[This message has been edited by EPFD-AL (edited March 06, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by EPFD-AL (edited March 06, 2000).]

[Ledbelly]

Great Post Lt...
I read this with great interest since we have nothing remotely resembling a RIT. So I can't answer the question "What if?..." All I can say is- were I a RIT, I liked the other responses also... was kinda thinking along those lines... and am gonna insist I (and my crew) have some RIT training!

[Scene25]

My opinion, and I ll make it a fast one. While you are in the process of connecting up the RIT SCBA, the truck crew should already be informed of the downed firefighter location, therefore already in the process of enlarging an opening, thus by the time the rescue is made, the truck crew should have the opening made, and ready for the removal.

Take Care and Be Safe

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John Williams
NRFF1/EMT
Clairton Fire Dept