Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Niedner LDH

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Niedner LDH

    I tried a search, but was unable to come up with what I am looking for.

    I was wondering if anyone is using Niedner 4 inch LDH. If so, can you tell me what friction loss you are experiencing. It is my understanding that they have a significant decrease in FL.

    I was wondering about flows of 500, 1000, & 1500gpm.

  • #2
    Niedner

    Send me PM and I will give you a contact who has sold Niedner and uses it on their FD.
    Last edited by SunVVFD; 10-26-2006, 09:13 AM. Reason: Personal info

    Comment


    • #3
      Sun

      If the area code is 352, I got the number in my email notification of reply. I appreciate the help.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hose LDH

        Why 4 inch ldh??? Go to 5 inch and flow your gpm with much reduced friction loss. This is all we use on a regular basis.

        Comment


        • #5
          We dont have any of their LDH, but do have some 1 3/4", 2" and 2 1/2" and are happy with it.
          Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

          IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

          "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
          RUSH-Tom Sawyer

          Success is when skill meets opportunity
          Failure is when fantasy meets reality

          Comment


          • #6
            We run their hose exclusively. Pretty good, better than what we had previously. Don't know about 4", we went 5". Lays well, packs well, nothing super noticable.

            Comment


            • #7
              We just pulled EVERY section of our 1 3/4" neidner "lay flat style" hose. We were finding that it failed to often, did not deploy well (knotted up), got kinked on corners and had incredible friction loss. Our standard line was 200' of Neidner with a TFT, it flowed at 150 ep 146gpm. We replaced everything with Ponn Conquest and Akron 200 gpm / 75 psi nozzles and are now at 150 ep getting 250 gpm!! Of that number we equated back that 40 gpm comes directly to the hose, feel the inside of your Neidner someday and feel how rough it is, that's friction loss!! But hey it does lay flat and compact. If you want the numbers post your email and I'll send it out.

              Comment


              • #8
                We have or have had Neidner hose in 1-3/4", 2" and 5". Some members feel that the hand line sizes have not held up well, I haven't noticed that so much. Their light weight hose seems to me to work out very well in our standpipe (high rise) packs.

                Our 5" dates back to 1989. We bought it because at the time, we felt that it was the most suitable hose for our high hydrant pressures (185+ in many cases). It's lighter than anything comparable at the time we bought it. It also seems to pack better than anything else, then or now. But their floating inner liners sometimes take a twist that makes it difficult to roll and goofy to pack. We were concerned about it retaining the twist after being deployed and charged, causing a restriction, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. We were also concerned that the inner liner could come loose and find its way into the pump, a'la Snap-Tite, but that never happened either. If you recouple your own hose like we do, you have to be very careful to get all three layers properly inserted over the coupling ring.

                Like any woven hose, the Neidner snakes like crazy when it's charged.

                But the years have taken their toll, and while the Neidner can still flow beaucoup water, some of it looks like lawn sprinklers. We've replaced all of it with Angus Hi-Combat Lite. The Hi-Combat Lite doesn't weigh very much more and its operating pressure is 200 psi, test 225. It doesn't pack nearly as nicely and you can't get as much on, but it doesn't snake very much, either. That's a plus, because in some cases snaking is the difference between maintaining access on a street for incoming apparatus or not.

                Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!
                Last edited by chiefengineer11; 12-10-2006, 10:15 PM. Reason: Spelling

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by buckdog
                  We just pulled EVERY section of our 1 3/4" neidner "lay flat style" hose. We were finding that it failed to often, did not deploy well (knotted up), got kinked on corners and had incredible friction loss.
                  There's a large FD in the Central Virginia area that had to pull 1000's of feet of Neidner out of service in the past couple of months due the inner liner seperating from the outer shell and creating all kinds of problems. They discovered the problem after another very large Virginia FD experienced similar problems are gave FD #2 a heads-up.

                  I personally don't have experience with the Niedner hose, but I thought that that the above information might interest you, espically based on your location. My VFD doesn't currently use low friction loss hose (waiting until new engine arrives next year), but at work we use Ponn Conquest attack line and Angus 5" LDH with great luck.

                  Take a look at the "More LDH Problems" article on this section of FFCC.com ... http://firefighterclosecalls.com/averted.php.

                  Hope this helps...
                  Career Fire Captain
                  Volunteer Chief Officer


                  Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To Spencer 534

                    Spencer534 - Please contact me at [email protected]. Have a question about West Point. Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thats exactly what happened to ours, inner liner seperation and the lawn sprinkler scenario. How can you trust it??

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by buckdog
                        Thats exactly what happened to ours, inner liner seperation and the lawn sprinkler scenario. How can you trust it??
                        You would have to talk to someone at Neidner or someone very up on hose design, but if I remember correctly, that inner liner was supposed to "float." I don't know if it was attached at the folds, or if it was completely free, but I know on ours, the inner liner would take a twist, usually in one spot and not on every length. That would make the length roll/pack funny. Whatever it was supposed to do, I don't think it did the way they thought/said it would.

                        Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by buckdog
                          We just pulled EVERY section of our 1 3/4" neidner "lay flat style" hose. We were finding that it failed to often, did not deploy well (knotted up), got kinked on corners and had incredible friction loss. Our standard line was 200' of Neidner with a TFT, it flowed at 150 ep 146gpm. We replaced everything with Ponn Conquest and Akron 200 gpm / 75 psi nozzles and are now at 150 ep getting 250 gpm!! Of that number we equated back that 40 gpm comes directly to the hose, feel the inside of your Neidner someday and feel how rough it is, that's friction loss!! But hey it does lay flat and compact. If you want the numbers post your email and I'll send it out.

                          You are seeing superior performance because you switched to 1.95" Inside diameter hose (ponn Conquest)if you bought their 1 3/4". Its a gimmik basically. Sure the hose brands have diff FL, but Ponn is a little on the extreme side.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just found this on the Bucks County (Pa.) Firemans Assoc. Website:

                            In case you use Niedner hose, here's a heads up.
                            There was an incident in Va. Beach FD who had a pump failure at a working building fire due to the liner of a 5" hose section coming loose and being sucked into the pump.

                            Testing all of their 5" hose late last week and quickly determined that about 40% of it was defective. Defective means that the inner liner was separating from the inner sleeve. Some was so bad that it was immediately taken out of service and the rest was questionable but passed the criteria we set to allow it to remain in service until replaced.

                            Since the 2 1/2" and 1 3/4" are also Niedner, that was tested too. The attack lines failed at even a higher rate than the supply line. Over 50,000 feet of hose was tested over the past 5 days. The manufacturer is working to replace the faulty hose. If anyone has Niedner, they may want to visualize the inner liners at each end of the sections to determine whether the liners have separated to the point to where they present a hazard to water flow.

                            Niedner has provided 2000’ of new 5” hose in order for the companies to remain in service.

                            Now, to address what Chiefengineer11 stated earlier- the Neidner 5" hose is an absolute pain in the *** to pack. The folds will not hold at all, and the twisting of the liners is paramount to medieval torture when it is 3am, cold and rainy.......chiefengineer11 wouldnt know, because he was always in the cab of the truck pulling forward or backwards as we packed........And in case if he decides to chime in here by saying that I am never happy with anything the company buys or some other excuse, I challenge him to present ONE name of a member of the company who likes the Neidner LDH, because ALL of the active members when we had that crap HATED it.
                            "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, Buff...we only have about 6,500 feet of Niedner, and have been using it for at least 7 years (XL-800 in 1.75", 2", 2.5" and 3") as well as SupplyLine (5") and have not experienced the issues you have presented to that degree. On the occasions when the inner liner twists (usually during draining) we just reverse twist it back into position. All sizes of the hose need to be drained using the "vacuum method" (I'm sure you're familiar with this) and when its done right, the hose is extremely flat, and packs great. We are actually carrying 1500' of 5" LDH in the same bed as we previously carried 1600' of rubber jacket (Brand S) 4" LDH. All in all, we are very happy with our switch to all Niedner, and plan to continue using it in the future. Our personnel have remarked on many occasions as to how easy it is to work with compared to the old rubber jacket stuff.

                              Comment

                              300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                              Collapse

                              Upper 300x250

                              Collapse

                              Taboola

                              Collapse

                              Leader

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X