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  • #31
    Even though the book says otherwise, I'm with you 14. The more water I can carry the better. The most important thing is to drain the smaller lines which can freeze much quicker than the pump does. Even if you circulate water in the pump the pipes up to the trash line on the bumper is sitting still and will freeze. If you have an aux engine cooler open it up, normally you can't drain those unless you spec'd it to do so. By opening it you keep water moving in the small lines going from the pump to the cooler and back, plus you introduce a little heat from the engine into the pump. Keep all drains open right up till you charge the line, it'll thaw out once water is moving.

    Canuck, I've seen pumps blown out at the local dealer. They have a 2 1/2 cap with an air chuck on it, put 100psi into the pump and blow out each uncapped discharge then open all the drains.
    Last edited by Fire304; 12-14-2005, 10:11 PM.
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    • #32
      !4,It may not be Antartica but during my time here I've HAD wet (not ours)pumps "catch" to the point of being unusable.This happens generally in TRANSIT to a MA community so circulating(until you get there)is NOT an option.With our method they DO NOT catch and are usable upon arrival regardless of travel distance.Like I said it's not for everyone but what do you "coasties" know about cold anyway? Never gets below shirtsleeve weather in Yarmouth.Come on up here in the Mountain valley and see what cold looks like.We've done it this way for a half a century,it works and I expect as long as we can get the "juice"we'll continue.If wet pumps work for you,wonderful;call me when it doesn't,we still make house calls.As far as "houses" freezing up install teledialer freeze alarms,a cheap investment as opposed to a rig. T.C.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Rescue101
        It may not be Antartica but during my time here I've HAD wet (not ours)pumps "catch" to the point of being unusable.
        Recently? Or with older equipment?

        Or recently with older equipment?

        Frount mounts? Midship?
        God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
        Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
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        • #34
          Within the last three yrs,late model midship pump.I know,I know I'm the only guy who's ever seen this.Hang around awhile,maybe you'll see it.It's a real treat especially when you're up to your ears in fire.This particular incident was in Denmark but I had one of ours during the Ice age of '98 freeze within 10 minutes of when we stopped pumping it. Hose got kinda stiff too and it was drained immediately. T.C.
          Last edited by Rescue101; 12-15-2005, 02:06 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Rescue101
            Within the last three yrs,late model midship pump.I know,I know I'm the only guy who's ever seen this.Hang around awhile,maybe you'll see it.It's a real treat especially when you're up to your ears in fire.This particular incident was in Denmark but I had one of ours during the Ice age of '98 freeze within 10 minutes of when we stopped pumping it. Hose got kinda stiff too and it was drained immediately. T.C.
            Denmark, the country? Sounds like it might be an interesting story.
            Originally posted by ThNozzleMan
            Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

            I A C O J
            FTM-PTB


            Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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            • #36
              Nope,Denmark the town.Sits at the end of Moose pond.The north winds rips out of the mountain valley and down the pond.Cold enough some days there to freeze the ba**s off a brass monkey. T.C.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Rescue101
                Nope,Denmark the town.Sits at the end of Moose pond.The north winds rips out of the mountain valley and down the pond.Cold enough some days there to freeze the ba**s off a brass monkey. T.C.
                Well, that's no fun. Was hoping you were going to say "Yup, the country" and have a good story to tell. I love going over to Denmark and Germany, have had a few "good times" over there. Aboslut is cheap, and comes in BIG bottles.

                Originally posted by ThNozzleMan
                Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

                I A C O J
                FTM-PTB


                Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Rescue101
                  Hose got kinda stiff too
                  One nice thing about freezing weather, you don't have to roll hose! LOL Just throw it over your shoulder like a 2X4 and stack it like cord wood in the back of the chief's pickup truck.

                  Res343cue, up here in God's (forgotten) Country we've got Norway, Mexico, China, Poland, Peru, Columbia, Orient, and several big cities such as Paris, Moscow, Detroit, Washington, Athens, and Troy.

                  And while on the subject of Maine towns...

                  We've also got a whole series of inspirational towns such as Freedom, Unity, Hope, Liberty, Friendship, and Harmony (ledgend has it they were all named by drunk Quakers).

                  There is not, however any town called Castle Rock, Crab Apple Cove, Derry, Cabot Cove, Chamberlain, Jerusalem's Lot, or Mooseport (although there should be).
                  ________________________________________________
                  If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
                  ________________________________________________
                  A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

                  IACOJ Fire Boat 1

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                  • #39
                    I didn't have you pegged as a Stephen King geek, 304...

                    Originally posted by Fire304
                    And while on the subject of Maine towns...
                    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
                    Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
                    Click this to search FH Forums!

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                    • #40
                      Interestingly enough, after reading this I decided to leave the water in our pumps. We ran a box on wednesday nite (under 20 degrees), and now have problems in a pumper. I was cursing the water in the pump until I realized what happened.

                      The air lines that operate the drains (yes - air operated drains - I didnt spec it so don't even start) had water in them. The water collected in the air switch that operates the drains. The drain opened, broke a bunch of sh*t inside the switch, and now won't close. The switch is internally stuck in the open position, drain stuck open. I switch hoses on the drain, forcing it closed and got the truck back in service. This helps prove an idea that because of the volume of mass in the water/pump, freezing isn't as much of a problem. I just never thought about condensation/water in those little nylon hoses that run the important stuff.... (guess who spent all day today draining water out of an air system)... and NO, the filter/drier did NOT get all the water out (obviously)...

                      Jon

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                      • #41
                        When was the last time the air dryer was rebuilt, and was it rebuilt with genuine parts? (They do need to be rebuilt every few years) How much oil is the air compressor passing? Is its intake restricted? Is the air dryer plumbed to specs (rarely find one that actually is)

                        A properly functioning air dryer should leave no water in the system.

                        Birken

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                        • #42
                          Birken,

                          Its a year 2000 HME chassis (yeah, I know), it was rebuilt by a good mechanic (me) with genuine parts 2 years ago. Air compressor is not actually passing much and the intake is fine. As far as it being plumbed to specs, all I can tell you is that it is as factory installed by HME...

                          Jon

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by chiefeng7
                            The air lines that operate the drains had water in them.
                            And there in lies the the real problem with winter ops, you're gonna freeze the little lines long before you freeze the pump. Freeze up the engine cooling line, you're out of service, freeze up any of the master drain lines (there usually are 3-5 of them) and you're out of service. Freeze the foam manifold after this been properly flushed with water....

                            There is not much you can do about these little lines, the only saving grace is that they are faily easy to replace, but you'll still be out of service when they freeze.

                            As for air operated drain valves, yikes. LOL. Some one has not been draining their air tanks regularly to detect water in them...
                            Last edited by Fire304; 12-17-2005, 09:16 AM.
                            ________________________________________________
                            If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
                            ________________________________________________
                            A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

                            IACOJ Fire Boat 1

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by chiefeng7
                              Its a year 2000 HME chassis (yeah, I know), it was rebuilt by a good mechanic (me) with genuine parts 2 years ago. Air compressor is not actually passing much and the intake is fine. As far as it being plumbed to specs, all I can tell you is that it is as factory installed by HME...
                              Well I also happen to have a 2000 HME (I assume you have the 1871) so I will look at it at work today and see how they did it. Yours is probably like mine and has a "system purge" air dryer which uses air from the front reservoir and wet tank to purge itself. Of course in my climate I never have problems with air lines freezing.

                              A few more questions that relate specifically to the "system puge" concept. 1. Does the pressure in the front tank slowly drop after the initial blast of air for about 10 psi? (Hard to see on the OE electric gauges; I replaced them with 270° mechanical ones) and 2. Is the air usage of the truck so high that the dryer does not get a chance to fully purge before another cycle starts.

                              Also just an FYI: if that truck has the Cummins ISC then it needs to have the return cooling water line from the air compressor replumbed. Seems it gets too little water flow in high usage applications the way it comes from the factory. Cummins sells a replacement hose for this application but it will not fit in a fire truck. I used a hose from the air compressor to the bottom of the radiator instead.

                              Birken

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                              • #45
                                Sounds like your dryer is up to date, even a moderately busy FD does not use its trucks often enough to go through a dryer cartrigde that fast.

                                As far as compressor cooling, Birk it's not as much of an issue up here, the air is coming in pretty cold and the engine never runs very hot in the winter (although I can definitely appreaciate that problem in the summer).

                                chiefeng7 do you plug the truck into shore air when in the station? I find this is very often the primary source of water in a truck, as the plug in is down stream of the dryer. You're much better off with a Kasmule (sp?) make up compressor. If you do use shop air you can get a water trap and an air dryer cartridge and put it on the wall near the truck. When we got our new trucks in 01 we stated pluggin them into the existing system and immeadiately began having water problems. Since the trucks don't leak much we stopped using the compressor and have had no problem since.
                                Last edited by Fire304; 12-17-2005, 03:11 PM.
                                ________________________________________________
                                If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
                                ________________________________________________
                                A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

                                IACOJ Fire Boat 1

                                Comment

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