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  • #16
    We have the 2.5" hard sleeves, but they ride with the BC. They are there in case a woods truck needs to draft at a fire (never happened that I know of). Being as the BC responds to all woods fires in his battalion, it is made available to all the woods trucks if they need it.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Originally posted by Rescue101
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    • #17
      Guess "GT" & I are the "odd-balls" because 3" suction with 2 1/2" couplings is all we use for operating out of a drop tank. All of our engines are designed with rear 6" intakes. The intake is fitted with a 6" by 2 1/2" gated siamese. This way we can either nurse off a tanker or drop the dual 3" suctions into the drop tank. The suction is able to move 350+ gpm per sleeve so we are able to reach flows that will supply four preconnect 1 3/4" lines. When running tanker shuttles it is seldom possible to maintain more than 800 gpm in a shuttle. The reason for the rear intake is to keep the entire operation in a single lane. A driver can set-up the 3" to nurse or to draft from the drop tank freeing the rest of the crew to attack the fire. The valves on the siamese make it easy to switch from tank water to nurse or drop tank and back to the water tank.

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      • #18
        We double up the 6" hard suction to reach around to the front of the truck and draft from there. Same concept of operating in one lane when possible and it leaves a side shot or end shot on the dump.
        A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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        • #19
          Originally posted by KuhShise View Post
          Guess "GT" & I are the "odd-balls" because 3" suction with 2 1/2" couplings is all we use for operating out of a drop tank. All of our engines are designed with rear 6" intakes. The intake is fitted with a 6" by 2 1/2" gated siamese. This way we can either nurse off a tanker or drop the dual 3" suctions into the drop tank. The suction is able to move 350+ gpm per sleeve so we are able to reach flows that will supply four preconnect 1 3/4" lines. When running tanker shuttles it is seldom possible to maintain more than 800 gpm in a shuttle. The reason for the rear intake is to keep the entire operation in a single lane. A driver can set-up the 3" to nurse or to draft from the drop tank freeing the rest of the crew to attack the fire. The valves on the siamese make it easy to switch from tank water to nurse or drop tank and back to the water tank.
          It's a BITCH to feed a Ladder pipe thru a 3" Suction. YES,our neighbors can(and do)run master stream ops from ponds. And we set 'em wherever we can.

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          • #20
            Timely thread...

            Last night we were practising for our Tender Shuttle Accreditation and we ran in to a problem with using 6" suction.

            How do you switch between your on board tank and porta-tank if you do not have a MIV on your engine?

            Why not use dual 3" hard suction thru 2 1/2" inlets? You can open and close as you need run single or double depending on water level and availability.

            Any other suggestions?
            "We accept great personal risk to save another person's life; We accept moderate personal risk to save another persons property; We accept no personal risk to save what is already lost"

            Visit us on the web @ www.saltspringfire.com

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Saltspringfire View Post
              How do you switch between your on board tank and porta-tank if you do not have a MIV on your engine?
              Are you referring specifically to the Hale MIV, or any gated suction at all?

              It's easily accomplished, assuming that you have a butterfly valve on the suction inlet. Simply slowly (over a 15-30 second time frame) close the tank-to-pump while at the same time, and at the same speed, open the butterfly valve, and the suction will be drawn. We teach this to our students as a way to pull a draft (assuming you have tank water) in case the primer does't work.

              Now, if you're just hooking the suction hose directly onto the threaded suction inlet with no valve, that's going to be a lot more difficult.

              Why not use dual 3" hard suction thru 2 1/2" inlets? You can open and close as you need run single or double depending on water level and availability.
              No reason you can't per se. We just prefer to not have any restrictions on flow, such as smaller intakes, smaller plumbing, and the inherent FL that occurs with the plumbing and elbows needed to reach the impeller and/or pump manifold, depending on your pump manufacturer.
              Career Fire Captain
              Volunteer Chief Officer


              Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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              • #22
                When working out of the apparatus tank, proceed as follows: Fill the drop tank and put the hard sleeve with the strainer into the tank. Have the P.O. set the governor in rpm if so equipped. Have 2 men on the hard sleeve and one to take the steamer cap off the engine. The other two will quickly apply the suction to the steamer. Yell to the P.O. and have him open the Tank to Pump while pulling on the primer valve. Don't change the rpm and stay on the primer until you get a hard prime back. It is best to have the attack crew in a safe place before you try a "flying" hook-up. Refill the apparatus tank for your safety.

                Switching from drop tank back to the apparatus tank as follows: The end of the suction can be kept under water, and the strainer removed. Then screw the steamer cap on the suction tube while still under water.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
                  Are you referring specifically to the Hale MIV, or any gated suction at all?

                  It's easily accomplished, assuming that you have a butterfly valve on the suction inlet. Simply slowly (over a 15-30 second time frame) close the tank-to-pump while at the same time, and at the same speed, open the butterfly valve, and the suction will be drawn. We teach this to our students as a way to pull a draft (assuming you have tank water) in case the primer does't work.

                  Now, if you're just hooking the suction hose directly onto the threaded suction inlet with no valve, that's going to be a lot more difficult.
                  We don't currently have any valve on our header cap so ya, we've have to switch on the fly like Kuhshise described... a little tuff while you have to guarantee 250 gpm for the test.

                  Has anyone tried an automatic suction valve?

                  http://www.edarley.com/automatic-suction-valve.html

                  Or is there something better out there? We either need to go back to the drawing board and look at dual 2 1/2 hard suction or buy a 6" valve.

                  Our newest engine has an MIV with an air primer to the outside of the valve, but unfortunatley, it's not the draft engine at this location.
                  "We accept great personal risk to save another person's life; We accept moderate personal risk to save another persons property; We accept no personal risk to save what is already lost"

                  Visit us on the web @ www.saltspringfire.com

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                  • #24
                    ISO Slayer

                    Larry Davis was agreat resource on water supply operations. His book http://www.rfi411.org/book_store.html should be mandatory reading for all in rural water operations..... Enjoy
                    David

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Saltspringfire View Post
                      Has anyone tried an automatic suction valve?
                      .
                      Yes work great. Otherwise known at a Hydrashield Precon valve. Obvoiusly can get a better deal from local dealer than from edarley.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by neiowa View Post
                        Yes work great. Otherwise known at a Hydrashield Precon valve. Obvoiusly can get a better deal from local dealer than from edarley.
                        The major drawback of a precon is the loss of GPM's because of the size reduction because of how they are made (when drafting). If your not going to need to pump capacity then a precon is a good tool. If a large amount of water is needed you either take off the precon or use two intakes.

                        As with any intake valve ask the dealer what it will do on the draft. Sure it can flow 1500 gpm, but can it draft that much?

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                        • #27
                          Saltspring: One of our MA companies recently purchased a rear suction engine with a butterfly valve right at the pump. They also spec'd a separate primer that runs to the high point in the rear suction line. When ready to take water from the drop tank behind the engine, they simply operate the rear primer, fill the suction and then operate the valve on the rear suction line. No loss of water at all.

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                          • #28
                            6inch Barrel Strainer Fix

                            A quick easy fix for a 6inch barrel strainer when no low level strainer is around - Cut a piece of inner tube from the average car/pick up truck tube that measures 10inches wide and the same length as the barrel strainer you're using. after connecting your hardsleeve and strainer to the engine, lay the cut piece of tube on top of your strainer and hold in place with rubber bands. this will still allow a good flow of water into the strainer and it's not drawing from the top side. Real easy, real quick.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Saltspringfire View Post
                              Timely thread...

                              Last night we were practising for our Tender Shuttle Accreditation and we ran in to a problem with using 6" suction.

                              How do you switch between your on board tank and porta-tank if you do not have a MIV on your engine?

                              Why not use dual 3" hard suction thru 2 1/2" inlets? You can open and close as you need run single or double depending on water level and availability.

                              Any other suggestions?
                              That's about all you can do other than investing in a big fat keystone valve, an item I swear by. We just used it yesterday morning on a mutual aid structure fire.

                              Ya gotta have a valve on it.
                              “I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.”
                              ― Hunter S. Thompson

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