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  • FIREMECH1
    replied
    Originally posted by txgp17 View Post
    Truer words are rarely spoken.
    LOL.... I have my days.

    FM1

    Leave a comment:


  • txgp17
    replied
    Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    If you want to live and die by only what the NFPA says, then you are in trouble.
    Truer words are rarely spoken.

    Leave a comment:


  • KuhShise
    replied
    Nullygarho: Easy way to check grade. You will need a 2 x 4 stud 8 ft. long. They are usually 97" (allows 1" trim to square), a level and a tape measure. Definition of percent grade is the drop in feet for a 100 ft. run. Changing to inches does the same thing. Put the level on the top of the 2 x 4. Place one end of the stud on the road, and raise the down hill end of the stud until it is level. Last, measure the distance from the bottom of the stud to the road and the inches you measure will be the approximate grade.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2ivswo
    replied
    I guess our department goes kind of overboard when it comes to brake tests. I applaud this over achieving mentality though since the brakes will be the only thing that will save your bacon on the road. We do a daily brake test to satisfy the California Vehicle Code for commercial driving. This consists of a COLA test at minimum
    C- Cut in (note the pressure)
    O- Cut out (note the pressure)
    L- Leak test
    A-Alarm test

    I am not sure how many of our Engineers do a park brake test but i do every morning which consists of pulling the rig out to the front apron, allow it to roll and then pull it. No more than 5 mph when this is done.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREMECH1
    replied
    hehe.... I'm also on that same site. If you're clever, you'll find me.

    Remember, I already know what it says for "ANNUAL INSPECTION".

    What I am talking about, is a "DAILY" brake test. One that will show a broken spring in the spring chamber, that unless you wait until you roll down and hit something, you won't find until it is too late.

    The NFPA has some good guidelines, and some that are just plain ridiculous. If you want to live and die by only what the NFPA says, then you are in trouble.

    We are progressive on the mechanical side, as the FD is on their side for their operations and equipment.

    If you don't want to do a daily brake test, fine. But if you hit something, your precious book isn't going to save you from liability. If, by chance a rig did roll down and hit something, it is duly noted that it passed a prescribed park brake test at 0700, when the accident happened at 1500. Things break, but the driver covered his butt by doing his daily checks. No lawyer will win this round.

    And all those credentials, I have them too.

    FM1

    Leave a comment:


  • Nullygarhoe
    replied
    Answer to our questions...

    FIREMECH1, I went and asked some friends on another forum and here is the response I got:

    NFPA 1911, 2007 edition.
    16.4.1 The parking brake system shall be tested at least annually.
    16.4.2 The parking brake system shall hold the fully loaded fire apparatus on a grade of 20 percent or the steepest grade in the fire department's jurisdiction if a grade of 20 percent is not available.
    16.4.3 The parking brake shall be tested with the apparatus facing uphill and again facing downhill on the same grade.
    In my area, I have a grocery store parking lot with a side entrance that is very steep. I do not know if it is 20 percent grade, but it is the steepest grade around here. I use it to test the trucks in the nearby districts.

    Ronnie Fulcher


    The link below lets you convert an angle reading to percent grade so you can document the grade in the terminology the spec is written in. As you can see in the chart 20 % grade is app. 11 1/2 degree slope.
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sl...de-d_1562.html

    Patrick Collins
    ASE Master Auto, Med/Hvy Truck, Truck Equipment
    EVT Master Apparatus
    EVT Master Ambulance
    City Of Yuma, AZ

    Just had to go to the right people and ask politely for their help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nullygarhoe
    replied
    Originally posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    How many feet, or how many seconds do I let it roll before it stops????

    Simple question.

    FM1
    Your right, it is a simple question. Of course a minimum or maximum distance is not listed in the book.

    The only thing I can suggest at this point is either dig deep into NFPA and see if there is a minimum or maximum distance listed or go with what you as the engineer would feel safe with.

    Popping the brake and the truck mmediately coming to a stop would be the best response I would expect. The longer the roll out, the less comfortable I would feel. With that said, if there is any roll out, that may also be normal due to the weight of the truck and the number of axles.

    I guess NFPA also wants us to incorporate redundant systems into our truck operations by listing wheel chocks as part of the mandatory equipment on all trucks.

    Going back twenty years to highschool physics... "An object at rest has a tendancy to stay at rest unless acted upon by another force... An object in motion has a tendancy to stay in motion unless acted upon by another force..."

    The next thing is anything that WE can do to keep the truck from moving will help. From parking brake to wheel chocks, on to turning a front tire in against a curb will help keep pthe truck from rolling away.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaptOldTimer
    replied
    We have done this before but at a speed of 25 mph, near the training school and also at the shops, and apply the park, aka maxi, brake. In 100% of these tests the rig stopped.

    Not sure the distance it took.

    Maybe in quarters the members may test it daily but not an usual case. No in writing to do so. Just at a drivers whim.

    Leave a comment:


  • LVFD301
    replied
    When it takes out the doors or the wall - you let it roll too far.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREMECH1
    replied
    Originally posted by Nullygarhoe View Post
    Per the "Fire Service Pump Operator: Principles and Practice" pg. 139 Parking Brake Test "Make sure that the fire apparatus is in a safe position and has plenty of room to perform this simple brake test. With the fire apparatus turned on, allow it to move forward at a speed less than 5 mi/h (8km/h). Apply the parking brake. If the fire apparatus does not stop, bring it to a halt using the service brakes and have the apparatus inspected by a qualified mechanic."
    How many feet, or how many seconds do I let it roll before it stops????

    Simple question.

    FM1

    Leave a comment:


  • Nullygarhoe
    replied
    Check the BOOK!

    Per the "Fire Service Pump Operator: Principles and Practice" pg. 139 Parking Brake Test "Make sure that the fire apparatus is in a safe position and has plenty of room to perform this simple brake test. With the fire apparatus turned on, allow it to move forward at a speed less than 5 mi/h (8km/h). Apply the parking brake. If the fire apparatus does not stop, bring it to a halt using the service brakes and have the apparatus inspected by a qualified mechanic."

    If something does happen and it goes to court, you as the engineer and your department, have a legal leg to stand on. This test is in a text approved by NFPA and IAFC. By going out and "making up" your own tests potentially puts you and your department in a position of liability.

    If you and your department are going to create SOG/SOP's then refer back to the textbooks you used in school.

    "It sounded like a good idea..." and "I thought it was a good idea..." doesn't hold a whole lot of water in court.

    Leave a comment:


  • rvfd1145
    replied
    As a professional school bus operator and engineer for our fire department, the proper way defined in WV is having the park brake set (assuming you are using air brakes) put unit in drive, gently acelerate the engine to 1200 RPMs. If the vehicle moves any, then the brakes needs serviced. You should also remember to check for air leaks. You should build your air pressure to 100 lbs, and turn engine off, listen and watch gauge for 1 minute. Then hold service brake for 1 minute and listen and watch gauge. A drop in pressure more than 3 psi indicates a problem. Your compressor should build from 85 lbs to 100 lbs in 1 minute or less. If it doesnt, there is another problem. The brakes are in size to acomidate the respective vehicle they are on. Whether it is a 10 ton vehicle with a 220 hp engine or a 30 ton vehicle with a 410 hp engine, Its all the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • FIREMECH1
    replied
    Originally posted by LFD2203
    Remember, disaster begats code. Those departments with a parking brake testing policy, procedure, guide, etc. are probably those who have had an apparatus roll away with the brake set. Just sayin'
    Nope, not here. It is something called being "PRO-ACTIVE", than being RE-ACTIVE. Some should study the difference. 'Just sayin'

    FM1

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefKN
    replied
    Originally posted by LFD2203 View Post
    Remember, disaster begats code. Those departments with a parking brake testing policy, procedure, guide, etc. are probably those who have had an apparatus roll away with the brake set. Just sayin'
    My wife's car was crushed (it was parked) by a 3000 gal FD tender that rolled out of the auto body shop.

    Of course, the parking brake wasn't set. A critical step in the process.

    Leave a comment:


  • LFD2203
    replied
    Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    We don't do a dedicated brake test at our department. In fact, I feel somewhat ashamed that in my many years of doing this for a lot of different departments, that I've never heard of anyone doing a brake test.
    Remember, disaster begats code. Those departments with a parking brake testing policy, procedure, guide, etc. are probably those who have had an apparatus roll away with the brake set. Just sayin'

    Leave a comment:

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