Announcement

Collapse

Firehouse.com Forum Rules & Guidelines

Forum Rules & Guidelines

Not Permitted or Tolerated:
• Advertising and/or links of commercial, for-profit websites, products, and/or services is not permitted. If you have a need to advertise on Firehouse.com please contact sales@firehouse.com
• Fighting/arguing
• Cyber-bullying
• Swearing
• Name-calling and/or personal attacks
• Spamming
• Typing in all CAPS
• “l33t speak” - Substituting characters for letters in an effort to represent a word or phrase. (example: M*****ive)
• Distribution of another person’s personal information, regardless of whether or not said information is public knowledge and whether or not an individual has permission to post said personal information
• Piracy advocation of any kind
• Racist, sexual, hate type defamatory, religious, political, or sexual commentary.
• Multiple forum accounts

Forum Posting Guidelines:

Posts must be on-topic, non-disruptive and relevant to the firefighting community. Post only in a mature and responsible way that contributes to the discussion at hand. Posting relevant information, helpful suggestions and/or constructive criticism is a great way to contribute to the community.

Post in the correct forum and have clear titles for your threads.

Please post in English or provide a translation.

There are moderators and admins who handle these forums with care, do not resort to self-help, instead please utilize the reporting option. Be mature and responsible for yourself and your posts. If you are offended by another member utilize the reporting option. All reported posts will be addressed and dealt with as deemed appropriate by Firehouse.com staff.

Firehouse.com Moderation Process:
Effective immediately, the following moderation process will take effect. User(s) whose posts are determined by Firehouse.com staff to be in violation of any of the rules above will EARN the following reprimand(s) in the moderation process:
1. An initial warning will be issued.
2. A Final Warning will be issued if a user is found to be in violation a second time.
3. A 3-day suspension will be issued if the user continues to break the forum rules.
4. A 45-day suspension will be issued if the user is found to be a habitual rule breaker.
5. Habitual rule breakers that have exhausted all of the above will receive a permanent life-time ban that will be strictly enforced. Reinstatement will not be allowed – there is no appeal process.

Subsequent accounts created in an effort to side-step the rules and moderation process are subject to automatic removal without notice. Firehouse.com reserves the right to expedite the reprimand process for any users as it is deemed necessary. Any user in the moderation process may be required to review and agree to by email the terms and conditions listed above before their account is re-instated (except for those that are banned).

Firehouse.com reserves the right to edit and/or remove any post or member, at any time, for any reason without notice. Firehouse.com also reserves the right to warn, suspend, and/or ban, any member, at any time, for any reason.

Firehouse.com values the active participation we have in our forums. Please ensure your posts are tasteful and tactful. Thank you very much for your cooperation.
See more
See less

Wheel Chocks and Air Parking Brakes Question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by direwulv View Post
    Backing up in the discussion a bit, how many are performing a true air brake test as part of their apparatus check in? I do a complete DOT pre trip inspection upon arrival at the VFD. I'm guessing this is standard procedure at most departments?
    Admittedly, the checks are not done every time. We do them weekly during our scheduled maintenance days, and if those have been missed, they are done at Weekly Drill Night.

    Every response/drive gets a circle check and visual inspection.

    I don't trust my safety or my crews to someone elses check in.
    That statement is a bit contradictory. In the FD world (Volley or Career), there should not be a trust issue like that. If you trust them to back you up on a hoseline, lifeline, etc., why would you not trust them to perform an adequate truck check?

    Not that your wrong in doing your own pre-trip inspection, as we all know that is the legal requirement. I just think your "justification" is misdirected. If you really have issues of that magnitude within your dept, it is a management/leadership and cultural problem.

    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

    Comment


    • #47
      Well, Timmy2Tone needs to cut down on the caffeine. I'm sure it's the 48 hour shifts.
      As I've mentioned before, we've had a wheel chock launch off towards a firefighter. The discussion here then became what the purpose of wheel chocks in the first place? Given the physics of a air brake system, can the system "fail" and have the truck start rolling? If this has happened I would like to hear the story. I would also like to hear of people who have had wheel chocks act like a cruise missile.
      *What do I have to lose by setting the chocks? My fellow firefighters head, cause it has happened here.
      *Chock the wheels anytime the truck is out of the station? why not chock inside the station? you have just as much chance of the truck magically rolling away inside the station as you do in some parking lot.
      I'm sure Timmy has wheel chocks for his personal vehicle and sets them when the car is in the garage at home.

      But again, that's not the point. We used to feed the horses everyday, until it no longer became pertinent. I'm wondering if wheel chocks came from the day when air brakes where not in fire trucks, but we've never re-evaluated them. Has a properly functioning air brake system ever 'failed' with the truck rolling away? Has a wheel chock ever become a missile? I'm starting to think the answer to the former is "never" and the latter is "many times"

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by gobigorstayhome View Post
        Well, Timmy2Tone needs to cut down on the caffeine. I'm sure it's the 48 hour shifts.
        As I've mentioned before, we've had a wheel chock launch off towards a firefighter. The discussion here then became what the purpose of wheel chocks in the first place? Given the physics of a air brake system, can the system "fail" and have the truck start rolling? If this has happened I would like to hear the story. I would also like to hear of people who have had wheel chocks act like a cruise missile.
        *What do I have to lose by setting the chocks? My fellow firefighters head, cause it has happened here.
        *Chock the wheels anytime the truck is out of the station? why not chock inside the station? you have just as much chance of the truck magically rolling away inside the station as you do in some parking lot.
        I'm sure Timmy has wheel chocks for his personal vehicle and sets them when the car is in the garage at home.

        But again, that's not the point. We used to feed the horses everyday, until it no longer became pertinent. I'm wondering if wheel chocks came from the day when air brakes where not in fire trucks, but we've never re-evaluated them. Has a properly functioning air brake system ever 'failed' with the truck rolling away? Has a wheel chock ever become a missile? I'm starting to think the answer to the former is "never" and the latter is "many times"
        Go back to a post that I put in early in this thread. In it, I and others explained exactly how it can and does happen. And yes, until the problem was corrected, we did chock the wheels in the station.

        Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by timmy2tone View Post
          What do you have to lose by setting the chocks? Please tell me that it is not more than 10 seconds. I get a lot of crap for it. Fortunately for me it is the more idiotic people on my department that give me crap for setting my chocks everytime the rig is parked outside the station. BOTH CHOCKS EVERY TIME!!!!!!!!! SEAT BELT EVERY TIME!!!!!!!! When the ladder needs to go up. ALL 4 CHOCKS ON THE 2 FRONT WHEELS EVERY TIME WITH THE FRONT BRAKES SET TOO!!!!!!! If this stuff is made into a habit you will always do it. I have heard too many stories and witnessed too many close calls to look the other way. The ladder truck I drive belongs to me for 48 hrs straight. I am responsible for everything on, around, in and working on it. EVERYTHING/EVERYONE!! If it rolls away and kills little Billy playing with his puppy 2 blocks down the street, it is my butt and oh yeah, my response: UH...., well, ......um, I didn't think I needed them....;Goes over like a fart in church. CHOCKS AND SEATBELTS!!!!! Stay in school...LOL

          Amen to that.
          Hello. Fire dept.. You light'em, We fight'em!

          "hard working, gear jamming, nail driving, "jake". "

          IACOJ
          4-16-2010 "On the approach"

          Comment


          • #50
            ChiefEngineer. I remember your previous entry, and replied to it. Yes, if someone is not doing maintenance on a fire truck, things will go wrong.

            Have you ever had a fire engine with a properly applied air brake system start to move from a standing position?

            This is my core question.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by gobigorstayhome View Post
              ChiefEngineer. I remember your previous entry, and replied to it. Yes, if someone is not doing maintenance on a fire truck, things will go wrong.

              Have you ever had a fire engine with a properly applied air brake system start to move from a standing position?

              This is my core question.
              The qualified answer is "Yes." I say "qualified answer" partly because I'm taking you at your word that "properly applied" is exactly what you want to say. The normal proper way to apply an air parking brake (actually, a spring brake) is to pull (or in the case of Sealco, push) the parking brake valve). Properly adjusted is another story. Unfortuntately, as I outlined earlier, it is possible to think you have one properly adjusted when you don't.

              Also, for those who have trucks old enough to have manual slack adjusters, be eternally vigilant. Truck air brakes need adjusting frequently, far more than manually adjusted car brakes.

              To carry this discussion one level more, for years I have maintained that the spring brakes on a truck with properly adjusted service brakes will hold in just about any situation. Quite honestly, I rarely use chocks. We didn't even carry chocks until the incident that I cited in the first post.

              On the other hand, this week I'm out demo'ing the same quint again that I did last summer (Huntington, W.Va at the moment). I put the chocks down every time I go to use the ladder, if for no other reason than try to set a good example. And, the forces acting on an extended aerial ladder are different from those acting on a engine.

              Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

              Comment


              • #52
                Wheel Chock Debate

                I really don't think that it is necessary to chock the wheels unless on a grade or while in pump or performing a your brake check, crawling under the rig, C.O.L.A or something like that. Placing it simply because "we do it every time no matter what" seems like you are leaving the ability for the A/O to use his/her common sense.
                For those of us on the West Coast.....
                www.westcoast911.com

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by gobigorstayhome View Post
                  Have you ever had a fire engine with a properly applied air brake system start to move from a standing position?
                  Yes, springs break w/o warning. Auto slacks fail w/o warning. One of two things happen, either they get noticed when someone applies the parking brake while rolling slowly (should be done weekly or at least monthly) or when the truck suddenly starts to roll. I've seen both.

                  Edit... it was not a fire engine, it was an oil tanker, and I was some surprised to see it rolling away from me. I was pulling the hose off the reel (much like a booster line) when the truck started to roll on a slight grade. The auto slacks on both sides had stopped working thanks to sand and salt. At the time I was only checking them one a month. Now I'll pop the brakes an do a roll test ever time I start a truck.
                  Last edited by Fire304; 01-15-2008, 10:17 PM. Reason: Additional info added
                  ________________________________________________
                  If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
                  ________________________________________________
                  A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

                  IACOJ Fire Boat 1

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    On a truck with air brakes, I don't see the need to chock unless you're on a hill, or the engine throttle is manipulated for any reason. But I'm forced to because of Dept operating guidelines.

                    If you're parked on a 10% grade, and don't chock the uphill side, the Safety Occifer writes you up. What a farce.

                    Considering that our trucks have springs to actuate the service brakes for parking, but the chief's car/SUV only has a small aluminum park paw to hold it in place, why doesn't the chief's vehicle get chocked? Its parking mechanism is weaker than that of air brakes.
                    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      In an ideal world, I'd agree with you. But scroll back through this thread and look at some earlier posts on the subject. There are some very good reasons why you should (even though I'm one of the worst violators).

                      Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Daily brake test/check????

                        Something I have noticed, is nobody has said anything about doing your daily brake check, and park brake test. Why is this???

                        I get calls from stations that after a run, and return to the station, they complain about brakes not holding, or brakes fading. And are now out of service.

                        The first thing I do, is a park brake test. With that rigs door open, I start the rig, and with park brake activated, put in gear, and increase the idle 300rpm's. If it doesn't hold, then the driver gets a new one handed to him. Why, because it didn't "just" happen. 99% of the time, the driver did not do his daily brake check, or didn't do it correctly.

                        90% of the time, the brakes are good, but need an adjustment, usually both front and rear. Auto slack adjusters are not what they appear to be, and do not do as thier name suggests. They still need to be manually adjusted, period. And to see if they do, a park brake test will show that they need adjustment. They can also tell you if you have a broken spring in the brake can. If you know how to look for it.

                        My cities SOP is simple. If it's not in the house, then it gets chocked. Even if it is on the ramp, it gets chocked. Also, all chocks have an anchor screw with a bright yellow safety rope tied to it, 2 feet long. You can't miss it.

                        It's your ***, keep it covered.
                        I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

                        Originally posted by EastKyFF
                        "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by txgp17 View Post
                          car/SUV only has a small aluminum park paw to hold it in place, why doesn't the chief's vehicle get chocked?
                          You know, that's really a very good question. You should bring it up at the next officer's meeting.

                          Seriously though, I've seen a lot more air brake issues than park selector issues. I think part of the reason may be that a truck with one broken spring or a pair of bad slack adjusters will still hold on a slight incline, a car w/o a park pawl will roll on the slightest, so its more likely to be noticed right away.
                          ________________________________________________
                          If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
                          ________________________________________________
                          A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

                          IACOJ Fire Boat 1

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Keep asking until you get the answer you want

                            Am I the only one that has realized that gobigorgohome doesn’t want to hear all the reason why you should always chock the wheels? He doesn’t want to hear about runaway trucks, people hurt or other valid reasons to chock. He wants someone to give him justification not to chock the wheels. He keeps asking the same question and using the same asinine examples over and over hoping to get the answer he wants. Well here you go. No gobigorgohome, the whole idea of chocking wheels is just a well thought out plot to make you do something you don’t want to do. Wheel chocks serve no practical purpose at all. Our shop gets one or two trucks a year with damage due to mechanical malfunctions or driver error costing thousands to repair. And none were chocked at the time they took off on their own. Keep asking gobigorgohome, someone will come along that is getting picked on over not chocking wheels and agree with you 100%.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              In my quick view of this thread I didn't see where anyone mentioned auto-chocks? The oil delivery man who services our home (far too often at these prices) has them on all his trucks. This would seem to be an "inniovation" for the fire service. Our delivery man is a retired Lt. from our FD and he tells me the chocks deploy whenever the the parking brake is engaged. This might not be good on the apparatus bay floor but a simple switch might take care of that issue? Anyone seen these in the fire apparatus world. I could see issues with them on aerials given the change in position after jacking, but seems like a simple answer to the issue.

                              Our FD has the "everytime rule" as well, but like CE11, I was always a big offender, and generally don't hound my guys unless they fail to chock in pumps or on a steep grade. As for running up on them when their forgotten...happens all the time.

                              PS- don't go cheap like we did a few years back and let the local machine shop make chocks for you! We sliced two tires before taking them off the trucks.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                auto chocks?

                                RFDACM02 where can I get auto chocks? My brother is in the Propane business and he was looking for something like this. The propane trucks have to chock at ea. stop. We looked and searched but could not find anything.

                                A google search turns up some patents but nobody selling such a device that I could find.

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                300x600 Forums Only

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Lower 970x90

                                Collapse

                                Lower 728x90

                                Collapse

                                Lower 300x50

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X