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  • #31
    Fyred, I'm glad that I was able to provide you a laugh for the day.

    I find it interesting that you tell Johnsb that my argument would be valid if we were only talking about "my little corner of the country," yet you fail to clarify that your post would never apply to your my little corner of the US either. The overall idea that the local elected officials control monies hasn't been disputed by anyone at all. But for those of us that don't live in sparsley populated villages, do have a good working relationship with our elected officials, and do have overwhelming support from our citizens, it's not always a foregone conclusion that we'll be "stuck with" older, non-compliant vehicles.

    As for me not understanding what "truly" rural volunteer fire departments face on a daily basis, I think you'd be surprised to learn of the projects that I've been involved with to assist needy and ill-funded departments thoughout my state. Dirt floors in the bays, anyone?

    Neither John or I said that the FC should "demand" the replacement of the canopy cab rig, rather, it was one tool in the education of the elected officials as to the benefit of the replacement of the vehicle. We're both aware that they can't simply produce money, but if we're not being a voice for our members, their interests, and their safety, we're not doing our jobs as fire chiefs (I use the term "we" collectively).

    Completely OT: Why do your rebuttals generally drip with sarcasm and insults?
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
      Fyred, I'm glad that I was able to provide you a laugh for the day.

      I find it interesting that you tell Johnsb that my argument would be valid if we were only talking about "my little corner of the country," yet you fail to clarify that your post would never apply to your my little corner of the US either. The overall idea that the local elected officials control monies hasn't been disputed by anyone at all. But for those of us that don't live in sparsley populated villages, do have a good working relationship with our elected officials, and do have overwhelming support from our citizens, it's not always a foregone conclusion that we'll be "stuck with" older, non-compliant vehicles.

      As for me not understanding what "truly" rural volunteer fire departments face on a daily basis, I think you'd be surprised to learn of the projects that I've been involved with to assist needy and ill-funded departments thoughout my state. Dirt floors in the bays, anyone?

      Neither John or I said that the FC should "demand" the replacement of the canopy cab rig, rather, it was one tool in the education of the elected officials as to the benefit of the replacement of the vehicle. We're both aware that they can't simply produce money, but if we're not being a voice for our members, their interests, and their safety, we're not doing our jobs as fire chiefs (I use the term "we" collectively).

      Completely OT: Why do your rebuttals generally drip with sarcasm and insults?
      Well if FyredUp's FD can't afford to buy a new truck or refurbish their old ones, maybe they can at least afford some Midol. Sheesh!

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by johnsb View Post
        Well if FyredUp's FD can't afford to buy a new truck or refurbish their old ones, maybe they can at least afford some Midol. Sheesh!
        I think Fyred's point is that there is nothing wrong with a canopy cab engine that requires it's replacement simply because it is a canopy cab.

        The fact is that unless an appratus is involved in a rollover MVA, there is not a major increase in the risk of injury for the firefighters in the canopy jumpseat vs. firefiighters in an enclosed cab if they are both properly belted.

        Yes, a climnate control ride and the ability to communicate with the officer is nice, but neither is, IMO critical enough to justify the purchase of a enclosed cab engine if the truck is still in good working order ahead of possible other needs.

        I would have no issues still riding in the open jumpseats today.

        In fact, 2 of my VFDs 6 engines are still canopy apparatus.
        Train to fight the fires you fight.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
          Fyred, I'm glad that I was able to provide you a laugh for the day.

          It was good, really. My point beingall the explaining in the world, all the justifying in the world, will make no difference if there is NO MONEY to be had. Of course my post referenced my area, I just didn't say that. Truth is it references more areas than yours does. But perspective is everything.

          I find it interesting that you tell Johnsb that my argument would be valid if we were only talking about "my little corner of the country," yet you fail to clarify that your post would never apply to your my little corner of the US either. The overall idea that the local elected officials control monies hasn't been disputed by anyone at all. But for those of us that don't live in sparsley populated villages, do have a good working relationship with our elected officials, and do have overwhelming support from our citizens, it's not always a foregone conclusion that we'll be "stuck with" older, non-compliant vehicles.

          Nothing is EVER a foregone conclusion, but in today's economy the odds of a smaller rural community replacing a servicable rig solely because it has a canopy cab are virtually nil.

          As for me not understanding what "truly" rural volunteer fire departments face on a daily basis, I think you'd be surprised to learn of the projects that I've been involved with to assist needy and ill-funded departments thoughout my state. Dirt floors in the bays, anyone?

          Done it for years. My little rural FD with the population of 717 has donated syrplus equipment to neighboring FDs worse off than us. I personally have assisted people writing AFG grants after writing successful grants myself.

          Neither John or I said that the FC should "demand" the replacement of the canopy cab rig, rather, it was one tool in the education of the elected officials as to the benefit of the replacement of the vehicle. We're both aware that they can't simply produce money, but if we're not being a voice for our members, their interests, and their safety, we're not doing our jobs as fire chiefs (I use the term "we" collectively).

          I don't disagree with informing our political leaders of changes in standards and what we would need to be compliant. I am just realistic enough in my situation to know that informing them doesn't automatically open the checkbook.

          Completely OT: Why do your rebuttals generally drip with sarcasm and insults?

          If they only drip with sarcasm I must be slacking off! I guess it is just part of my charm when told I am wrong about the situation in MY area by someone who has never been here and most likely never will.

          I used sarcasm, you were condescending...frankly I prefer sarcasm because it doesn't imply superiority.
          As I said in my previous reply to you, don't tell me about my corner of the world and I won't tell you about yours.

          Have a nice day!!
          Crazy, but that's how it goes
          Millions of people living as foes
          Maybe it's not too late
          To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by johnsb View Post
            Well if FyredUp's FD can't afford to buy a new truck or refurbish their old ones, maybe they can at least afford some Midol. Sheesh!
            I guess staying relelvant to the topic was beyond your scope.

            Actually, all 3 of my FDs have fully enclosed cabs. My point was there is virtually no way, in today's political and economic climate, in my area that a perfectly sevicable rig will be replaced simply because it has a canopy cab. Our last one on my #1 POC FD went because it had rust issues and didn't pass the vacuum test during its last annual pump test. It was only 38 years old. So, care to tell me how things work in my area again Johnny Boy?

            For the record, I never said don't try to make your case for apparatus replacement. I never said an enclosed cab didn't have the potential to be safer, well, if it is a custom cab fire apparatus. I wouldn't agree that a commercial cab is built to the same standards for roll over protection as a custom cab.

            Refurbishment of an OLDER rig sometimes just does not make economic sense. You may not like that reality but refurbing a 38 year old rig is foolish.

            Now, you suggested Midol for me, I suggest a reality check for youand perhaps an ice cold beverage and a rest in the shade.

            Have a nice day!
            Crazy, but that's how it goes
            Millions of people living as foes
            Maybe it's not too late
            To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by LaFireEducator View Post
              I think Fyred's point is that there is nothing wrong with a canopy cab engine that requires it's replacement simply because it is a canopy cab.

              The fact is that unless an appratus is involved in a rollover MVA, there is not a major increase in the risk of injury for the firefighters in the canopy jumpseat vs. firefiighters in an enclosed cab if they are both properly belted.

              Yes, a climnate control ride and the ability to communicate with the officer is nice, but neither is, IMO critical enough to justify the purchase of a enclosed cab engine if the truck is still in good working order ahead of possible other needs.

              I would have no issues still riding in the open jumpseats today.

              In fact, 2 of my VFDs 6 engines are still canopy apparatus.
              Damn LA, just when I am about to give up hope on you, you post something logical and well thought out. Nice work.
              Crazy, but that's how it goes
              Millions of people living as foes
              Maybe it's not too late
              To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                Damn LA, just when I am about to give up hope on you, you post something logical and well thought out. Nice work.
                Scary - maybe the Mayans are right. And what one guy considers rural/poor would be utopia to another.
                ?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
                  Scary - maybe the Mayans are right. And what one guy considers rural/poor would be utopia to another.
                  That was exactlymy point. 30,000 here is not small or rural at all.
                  .
                  Crazy, but that's how it goes
                  Millions of people living as foes
                  Maybe it's not too late
                  To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                    That was exactlymy point. 30,000 here is not small or rural at all.
                    .
                    Our neighboring county has a population of 300,000, so you can imagine how rural they picture us being.
                    Career Fire Captain
                    Volunteer Chief Officer


                    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by FyredUp View Post
                      I guess staying relelvant to the topic was beyond your scope.

                      Actually, all 3 of my FDs have fully enclosed cabs. My point was there is virtually no way, in today's political and economic climate, in my area that a perfectly sevicable rig will be replaced simply because it has a canopy cab. Our last one on my #1 POC FD went because it had rust issues and didn't pass the vacuum test during its last annual pump test. It was only 38 years old. So, care to tell me how things work in my area again Johnny Boy?

                      For the record, I never said don't try to make your case for apparatus replacement. I never said an enclosed cab didn't have the potential to be safer, well, if it is a custom cab fire apparatus. I wouldn't agree that a commercial cab is built to the same standards for roll over protection as a custom cab.

                      Refurbishment of an OLDER rig sometimes just does not make economic sense. You may not like that reality but refurbing a 38 year old rig is foolish.

                      Now, you suggested Midol for me, I suggest a reality check for youand perhaps an ice cold beverage and a rest in the shade.

                      Have a nice day!
                      If you are buying, an ice cold Sam Adams would be nice. I just hit you in the azz with the Midol thing because you seemed to have taken my comments personally.

                      There's different levels of refurb, a good choice for a lot of FD's would be simply to enclose the cab, not necessarily rebuild top to bottom. And I know some places wish they could get a truck new enough to be a canopy cab. Most of my statements were aimed at local politicians.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Buying

                        If you're buying, please make mine a Yingling Lager draft in an ice cold mug. Thankyou.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          CDL is a licensing pattern that has been made mandatory by the government. And as for health card, acquiring a CDL requires you to furnish your medical records and certification.
                          __________
                          cdl lawyers

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            After reading through this thread I just want to throw something out there. Enclosed cabs are safer than canopy cabs, no argument. The four canopy cabs I have rode/operated are a '72 CF Mack (retired), '80 Sutphen ladder (replaced), 83' Sutphen (reserve scheduled to be replaced) and '89 Ford (reserve). These apparatus all had/have steel canopy's and I'm basing this reply on that information.

                            Everyone is debating the health and welfare of the 3 seated and BELTED personnel in the back. If this style of cab is a danger to the 3 personnel under the canopy in a rollover wouldn't the 2-3 personnel in the front of the cab also be at the same risk? (I am only considering a rollover incident, no frontal impact.) The argument could be made that the personnel in the back may be better off because of more open area between the seat and apparatus body compared to the open area in the cab of the apparatus.

                            Just wanted to throw this thought out there.

                            Stay safe and please keep the apparatus shiny side up so this remains a theoretical discussion.

                            Thanks,
                            Walt
                            Train like you want to fight.
                            www.kvfd.net

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Open Cab Mack CF

                              We just took delivery of our refurbished Mack CF Aerialscope with a open canopy cab, if all firefighters wear there seat belts there should not be any problems !
                              Attached Files

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                              • #45
                                I see most of you guys are talking about custom cabs with a canopy. What are your thoughts on this truck: fiberglass canopy, no ROPS, lap belts only?

                                Click image for larger version

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                                Not the best picture, but you can see what I'm talking about.

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