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  • Chevron (color) waivers

    I have had this conversation with a few guys that had no idea that this could be done, so I tought that it would be helpful to post it here.

    For those of you that already had chevrons prior to the mandate, and had the colors other than yellow/red, you are allowed to put in for a waiver to "MATCH YOUR FLEET". This is the only way to get a color other than the one that was mandated.

    This information comes from Ken Menke who is on the NFPA committee that adopted the chevrons.

    If you didn't have chevrons before, then you MUST use the yellow/red scheme.

    Ken (who is an engineer) also said that there is NO proof anywhere that one color is better suited as a warning device than any other color.
    The committee picked the colors that they did so there would be uniformity, NOT because it stands out more.

    If you have red/white, then you just put in for a waiver with your mfg. and they will be able to use red/white for future engines.

  • #2
    Did Ken provide information where this is referenced in the 2008 edition of 1901?
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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    • #3
      Waiver from what? NFPA 1901 is not mandatory. We have allowed NFPA to become a national standard that creates liability; at times for no valid purpose, such as the chevron color. Unless the builder specifically requires a waiver for their own purposes (liability pops up). But we've all probably seen or had builders not do everything 100% 1901 compliant without requiring signed waivers. It's all in their perception of the risk.

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      • #4
        There is a required item from every manufacture with any new truck delivered under the new 2009 1901 called a letter of Exceptions to required NFPA 1901. So I would assume under this "clause" a manufacturer could supply a vehicle without Chevron.

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        • #5
          Find a dealer and mfg that will leave off or modify anything you want that is contained in 1901. The mfg and in turn the dealer will require signature of Statement of Exception. Transfer liability to you. (new in 1901-2009).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by neiowa View Post
            Find a dealer and mfg that will leave off or modify anything you want that is contained in 1901. The mfg and in turn the dealer will require signature of Statement of Exception. Transfer liability to you. (new in 1901-2009).
            Yeah, those waivers really work good in court. By requiring a waiver the manufacturer is actually admitting they are doing something they know they shouldn't be doing. Cute trick but rarely does it float. Any lawyer worth their salt can nullify that waiver.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by firepundit View Post
              Yeah, those waivers really work good in court. By requiring a waiver the manufacturer is actually admitting they are doing something they know they shouldn't be doing. Cute trick but rarely does it float. Any lawyer worth their salt can nullify that waiver.
              1901 requires the waiver (new in 2009 edition). New program so who knows if the smaller mfg will even bother with the waiver or will start sticking to 1901. If mfg thinks waiver process does not protect them, then you won't get your option. Likely reflective chevrons are not a huge area of concern.

              To quote myself "Find a dealer and mfg". That would typically be one of the middle or lower end mfg that will promise and will build any goofball thing the FD asks for. Without an engineering review (by a degree engineer), formal design (a print) and without testing (tilt table/etc). Perhaps buying your truck from these guys might not be such a good idea even if it "saves" $10?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RFDACM02 View Post
                Waiver from what? NFPA 1901 is not mandatory. We have allowed NFPA to become a national standard that creates liability; at times for no valid purpose, such as the chevron color. Unless the builder specifically requires a waiver for their own purposes (liability pops up). But we've all probably seen or had builders not do everything 100% 1901 compliant without requiring signed waivers. It's all in their perception of the risk.
                Not so much that we have allowed, but rather lawyers, judges, and juries have allowed. Do something that goes against NFPA and you've guaranteed that you will lose the court case.

                The question I have is in regards to the definition of "yellow" and "red." For instance, my departments colors are maroon with a gold stripe, so we could claim that the maroon is nothing but a dark red, while the gold is yellow, as long as it is reflective.
                Last edited by simpleguy68; 03-23-2009, 10:19 AM.

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                • #9
                  Hey guys, check this thread for a response from Ken Menke regarding the information given by the OP.

                  Looks like the prevailing thought is correct, there's no specific waiver for previously-striped rigs.
                  Career Fire Captain
                  Volunteer Chief Officer


                  Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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                  • #10
                    So, does this mean that this fire department who has striped their new rigs as this are in fault?
                    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 09-11-2009, 04:57 PM.
                    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

                    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
                      So, does this mean that this fire department who has striped their new rigs as this are in fault?
                      Just not compliant with NFPA

                      {No Farking Practical Application}

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                      • #12
                        Chevrons

                        NFPA 1901-2009 the document with the addition of chevrons, only applies to trucks sold on or after Jan. 1, 2009.

                        Section 1.4 says this standard shall not be applied retroactivly.

                        So I'd say the new standard does not apply to older trucks. IMHO

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
                          So, does this mean that this fire department who has striped their new rigs as this are in fault?
                          Nope, because CFEMS signed the contract for these rigs (and thier new aerial) before January 1, 2009. Red/Yellow only applies for contracts signed after January 1 of this year, although a number of customers started to stripe thier rigs this way last year, adding to the confusion.
                          Career Fire Captain
                          Volunteer Chief Officer


                          Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

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                          • #14
                            I'm not for requiring the colors to go for a nationalized fire service look...but...
                            we had our Toyne specced to get the red/white to match the rest of our apparatus and when we saw two red/yellow NFPA compliant chevrons, we switched. They are definately more visible under daylight conditions! Add to that the diamond grade vs. scotchlite and it is by far the most visible apparatus on the road in our area.

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                            • #15
                              Considering the implementation of ANSI/ISEA 207-2006 (American National Standard
                              for High-Visibility Public Safety Vests)
                              , and the color requirements required of the fluorescent background material, shouldn't we choose a color for the non-red areas that would also meet this standard?

                              We assume they've done their research to substantiate the effectiveness of those colors. Why try to reinvent the wheel, or deviate from that path?

                              I posed this same question in another Chevron thread.
                              Last edited by txgp17; 04-10-2009, 12:53 AM.
                              The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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