Ford E series ambulance chassis

[islandfire03]

POCAMBU : absolutely no offense taken.
My statement about the GM 3500 series was exactly what you said. You can mount a mini mod on them but if your going to do that you might as well have a type 2 van. The light GVWR just can't handle the loads we put on the full size type 3 boxes today. With our current equipment loads the E-350 is not suitable either , unless you watch what you load the compartments with. The E-450 seemed to be the perfect balance between too light and war wagon class of the mid liners . We would never buy a mid liner due to having small roads and driveways with limited turn around space.
I have worked on a FL in intercity transport and it was wonderful for hauling a crew of 4 or 5 plus the pt. and all the specialized equipment. Unfortunately it rode like a Mack dump truck and was only good on paved multi-lane hi-ways. We don't even have anything bigger than 2 lane paved roads with a large percentage being dirt/gravel. This is why I asked about the F-450 4 wheel drive type 1 setup . I have seen a few E-series with the Quigley [sp] conversion and had wondered how that would work in ambulance service use.
We shall all have to wait and see how this all works out as I don't think that Ford will let the conversion market slip away from them as it's a large market shre for them in the commercial vehicle business

[pocambu]

Islandfire, At my EMS job we made the switch from F-350 to F-450 due to payload. Nothing wrong with the chassis but lots of 6.0 issues. All of ours up till now have been 4x2 except for our light duty rescue which is 4x4. However due to chassis availibilty the next order - 4 total - will be 4x4. Due in next month. I will be interested to see how the 4x4 holds up to our folks abuse. Trust me no matter what we do they treat'em like crap. I only hope nobdy tries to go too extreme off roading. But like I said overall pretty happy with the F-450. As far a C4500 ride issues I know Link has improved the new models and I think offers retrofit kits.

[nwadler]

I was looking at the chevrolet website and saw that the express van cutaway is offered in a diesel version with an ambulance package. I know that this may not be good for the bigger type III ambulances but for the type 2 and mini mods do you think it might replace the ford e series.

[npfd801]

If the GM cutaways use the newer diesel, they might have a chance. The local ambulance service that covers us bought two GM/Medtec diesels probably two or three years ago. One caught fire, both were mechanical nightmares. They have both been banished from the fleet, well before their scheduled replacement date. And no, the Medtec reference has no bearing on the GM side of things....

Just buy a Sprinter... You'll get your diesel then...

[pumper8032]

Thats all anyone uses here in Australia now, the "yank tanks" have fallen by the wayside. The Mercedes Sprinter is it now.

[N2DFire]

On another track does anyone run a 4 wheel drive type 1 on a F-450 chassis?

An agency I did a brief stint with has a F-350 & a newer F-450 Both Type I 4wd.
My old agency also has a F-350 4wd that's between the above two in age.

Aside from minor differences in year model changes & badging (and color and lettering of course) - if you parked them all in a row you would be hard pressed to tell them apart.

The 450 may sit a little higher and have a slightly "bigger" feel when driving it, but being used to how a Type I Drives / Rides already - the differences are not all that noticeable to me.

I would also estimate that Two-Thirds of our counties fleet (of 20+ ambulances) are Type I's with the majority of them being 4wd (gotta love being rural in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mtns). The remainder are Type III's 2wd with Auto Chains.

I know that over the years ('97 and up) we have had various issues with Ford components (transmissions mainly) but they have all (eventually) been repaired or resolved. The only real complaint comes with issues with the local service center.

[islandfire03]

A service nearby bought a couple of sprinters for their long distance transfer duty and love the fuel mileage but they are very susceptible to wind blown lane shifts and are incredibly small in comparison to the full size type 3's that most of us are using today for 911 service where we have more than 1 EMT and a pt. in the back. Plus they are severely lacking in exterior compartment space. There have also been some recurring maintenance issues with them that took several attempts at the dealership to remedy. I know that they are not for us.

[DonRobbie]

I was looking at the chevrolet website and saw that the express van cutaway is offered in a diesel version with an ambulance package. I know that this may not be good for the bigger type III ambulances but for the type 2 and mini mods do you think it might replace the ford e series.

One thing to keep in mind is they had to derate the motor (250 horse/440 torque) from the normal rating to make it work in the van chassis (cooling issues). It might be a little lacking in performance fully loaded.

[buckdog]

I just checked out Fords web site, they are pushing a "new, bolder" 2008, but no mention of any diesel engine on the E series. Posted 3/12/07

Also they are no longer showing any availablity of a E series on a ambulance prep..only F series

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=24890

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/specialty_vehicles/Ambulance_DisplayContent.asp?VehicleID=1

[islandfire03]

Thanks buckdog: Seems to me that maybe they are enlarging the front ends from the "A" post forward to prepare the E-series to be able to fit the 6.4 L diesel. otherwise they may have just made the second ugliest truck front end I've ever seen. A 14,500 GVW will be nice with all the stuff we seem to be cramming into ambulances nowadays.

[Grizzracer]

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=5018

This may have something to do with it.

[islandfire03]

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/...tion=1&id=5018


This may have something to do with it.

That has everything to do with the shortage of chassis. One contact who is a dealer spent the last month buying any diesel E-series chassis they could get their hands on. Still won't be enough to meet the demand. My guess is that we will see a lot more type 1's produced than in the past.

[moceng56]

Just to add my to cents worth. I work in this field after going to a trade show this past weekend and talking to ford reps. I don't think we are going to see a new E-series diesel until after 2010 when the emission standards go into effect.
We are already getting info for our Ford supplier on how the V-10 is a better option than the diesel. That it is cheaper to maintain and the cost of gas is cheaper at the pump than diesel. The 10% of the E-series market that accounts for ambulance chassis are one day’s production for Ford. Ford lost 3 days production on the F-series over this engine fight and is not worried about it. So I don't think Ford is going to lose any sleep on the 1-day’s worth of cutaways. If you look at the big picture from Ford’s view this is just the way they wanted it to happen.

First the 6.0L has been nothing but trouble for them since it first cam out and they have been paying millions in warranty claims ever since.

Second with International not building the engines any more for them they can walk away from the 6.0L and pin it on IH for them not building diesel cutaway anymore. This saves them tons of money and face.

As far as IH saying it has the engines for Ford.
The rumor is IH shipped the engines to Ford but tacked a 25% price increase to them because Ford with held payment to IH. In an effort to try to recoup money owed to Ford for warranty claims Ford paid out but IH did not reimburse them for. So if this is true Ford could not take on a 25% price increase per van and eat it. Once an order is placed the price is locked in so they could not pass the additional cost onto the end user. And I don't know any company that would take that kind of hit it just dose not make for good business or a good bottom line.

In the mean time GM is rumored to be working on a G3500 cut away with a 14.500 GVW but who know when we will see it. It will need to be tested and make sure it meets KKK.

After seeing the New F-series I am not impressed it has 6 yes 6 radiators that have to be removed to service anything on the front of the engine, also the Ford said to service the rest of the engine you would have to remove the cab from the frame. The advantage is said to be it will cost less labor to fix if you remove the cab. I would like to know whom cam up with this great idea?

So I don't see Ford putting any time into getting a new diesel engine into the E until after 2010 we are already into the 2008 model year and they canceled production. So I don’t see why Ford would to get an engine to work for one days production when they would have to redesign it for the 2010 model year to meet emissions.

These are just my opinions and the way I see thing form working in this industry. I hope this help shed some light on the problem at hand, that we are all dealing with as an industry.

Moceng56

[npfd801]

SNIPPED FOR SANITY

The 10% of the E-series market that accounts for ambulance chassis are one day’s production for Ford. Ford lost 3 days production on the F-series over this engine fight and is not worried about it. So I don't think Ford is going to lose any sleep on the 1-day’s worth of cutaways. If you look at the big picture from Ford’s view this is just the way they wanted it to happen.

<<snipped>>

Second with International not building the engines any more for them they can walk away from the 6.0L and pin it on IH for them not building diesel cutaway anymore. This saves them tons of money and face.

<<snipped>>

After seeing the New F-series I am not impressed it has 6 yes 6 radiators that have to be removed to service anything on the front of the engine, also the Ford said to service the rest of the engine you would have to remove the cab from the frame. The advantage is said to be it will cost less labor to fix if you remove the cab. I would like to know whom cam up with this great idea?

after 2010 we are already into the 2008 model year and they canceled production. So I don’t see why Ford would to get an engine to work for one days production when they would have to redesign it for the 2010 model year to meet emissions.

Moceng56

Interesting comments, but some facts you stated are wrong. International is building the new 6.4L diesel going into the new rigs. These are the motors that IH suspended production of because Ford wouldn't pay for them, not the 6.0L.
http://www.internationaldelivers.com...ail.asp?id=839

Cutaway production for the fire and emergency market may only account for 10% of the E-series production. But what about all of the rental moving trucks, or the diesel powered vans I see running around being operated by contractors or delivery companies? Does anyone have a real count as to what percentage of E-series production of the total used diesel power? I really suspect that brand loyalty will only go so far, and much of the market will defect to GM or a Sprinter for their van needs if they want diesel motivation.

I do agree with the comments about the new F series with the diesel. We've been warned as dealers that anything we do that gets into the engine compartment of a unit with the new diesel will cost huge money because of all the labor required to get in there.

[buckdog]

I cannot believe a Ford could / would be so stupid to build a product to make it easier to remove the cab to work on a engine?? Wow. Unfortunately this will cause a swing back to the more expensive, harsh riding, oversized medium duties that we were finnally getting away from. Maybe Toyota will come to the rescue!!