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  • Ford E series ambulance chassis

    Has anyone heard that there are issues with the Ford E450 and the 6.0L diesel? I heard some rumblings that the chassis/engine combo is no longer available from Ford. What else is there to use?

  • #2
    Yep

    From what I have this is true, Ford is going to continue to offer the type 1 ambulance on the F series chassis. The E series was found to be loaded over the listed GVW most of the time, that is the reason that I got for Ford discontinuing the use.

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    • #3
      I heard talk of this yesterday. The way I understood it, the E-series would be completely discontinued for ambulance use (at least the cut-away market). I'm not sure of the specific reasons, but I was led to believe that it was more related to engine issues than GVW issues - even though they've had their fair share of those, as well.

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      • #4
        Small box

        Will the use of "mini-mod" boxes still be availble. It seems like putting one of those on an F kind of defeats the point...

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        • #5
          Has anyone got a link to any official release from ford on this? or is this just the gossip stream flowing? I find nothing on the Ford website

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          • #6
            The following is a cut and paste memo we received from an ambulance manufacturer:

            On Wednesday, February 7, 2007 the Ford Motor Company released the following statement:

            "This notice is to inform you of a diesel engine supply issue which affects the 6.0 L diesel engine that is currently offered in the E-Series vans, wagons and cutaways. We can no longer accept orders which include this engine. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause our dealers, customers, and pool accounts".

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PMChuck View Post
              The following is a cut and paste memo we received from an ambulance manufacturer:

              On Wednesday, February 7, 2007 the Ford Motor Company released the following statement:

              "This notice is to inform you of a diesel engine supply issue which affects the 6.0 L diesel engine that is currently offered in the E-Series vans, wagons and cutaways. We can no longer accept orders which include this engine. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause our dealers, customers, and pool accounts".
              Ford is going to a new 6.4l twin turbo for the SuperDuty's. It is most likely related. I saw an ad on TV the other day for the new SD Pickup with the new diesel.

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              • #8
                From what I heard yesterday (no fact, just hearsay) Ford isn't going to be using the 6.0 liter engine due to '07 emissions, and the 6.4 liter twin turbo replacement won't fit in the E-series chassis.

                A friend of mine sells cut-away chassis with bus bodies (like the airport parking shuttles) said he was told yesterday by his body builder that they couldn't do any more Ford E-series diesel cut away chassis.

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                • #9
                  6.0 Liter E Series Vans

                  It is true Ford will not offer the 6.0 in the e series vans any more. As of yesterday Ford had orders for 4,600 e series diesel vans and only had 2,100 engines. Ford says it was not a direct result of the lawsuit between Ford and IH but as a result of a signifcantly increased price and warranty claims. They may use a gasoline in 2008 for ambulance chassis.

                  I think that GM 4500 chassis will move to the forefront, I personally do not like the 4500 but it's not about me but about what the customer wants. I would prefer the IH 4300.

                  It's going to hurt ambulance and bus manufacturers but I am sure people will be on the band wagon quickly to fix the hole.
                  Fyrtrks

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                  • #10
                    It is true. Ford plans on comining out with a new gas ambulance prep for the E series in less than 90 days. I have heard it has been the works well before the IH issue. They have doing multiple test to make sure no vapor locking etc will occur.

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                    • #11
                      Because this thread got me wondering about the truth in the rumors ,I went straight to the horses mouth and here is what i was given.

                      1. The ongoing issues with the 6.0 liter turbo failures and the ensuing litigation between ford and navistar have caused some serious issues.
                      2. The 07 emissions issues have caused them to go with the twin turbo 6.4 liter which will not fit into the Econoline series chassis.

                      3. The availability of 6.0 liters is nonexistent and no further orders will be taken on this chassis /engine combination.

                      4. They are looking at certifying the 6.8 liter gas v-10 for amb service,
                      but this combination does not meet current KKK specs.

                      5. GM is working to beef up it's HD 1ton chassis to heavier GVW to use
                      in cut-away conversions. right now it's too light a GVW to carry type
                      3 ambulance boxes and class C motorhomes

                      6. These facts are from a large fleet buyer for conversions for ambulance
                      motorhome & bus manufacturers.

                      7. They are not in panic mode as of now and hope that the engine issues will be worked out this year. for 2008 production models.

                      personally I wish they would have kept the 7.3 liter navistar which was much better than it's replacement the 6.0 with the variable geometry turbo. Not a rocket ship but extremely durable and plenty of towing power. Guess we'll be keeping our 95 ambulance a while longer to see where this all shakes out

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                      • #12
                        The message from Ford is this:

                        The 6.0L diesel does meet 07 emission requirements. They had planned to use the engine for another 24 months, but cost issues created the problem. They say the engine will continue to produce cost increases, which they deem too excessive to pass on to the consumers.

                        Ford claims to have had a 95% market share in ambulance chassis, and 98% of those were E series. They were profitable. But the cost issues are driving this issue. (Do you really believe that???)

                        There are no plans to put the new 6.4L diesel in the E series as it will not fit.

                        A 2008 model year solution is planned, but Ford did not offer any information on that. They do claim to be close to being able to offer a gasoline engine that will meet '47A,' but I don't know what that is. Until then, the ambulance industry will have priority over other industries in regards to chassis and diesel engines. As was previously stated, tho, there are 2100 engines but 4600 orders already booked.

                        As far as the GMC 4500 Topkick, we have 3 of them, and we hate every single one of them. They ride is terrible, first and foremost. If you have anyone that's tall, the cab offers very little leg room. I am 6'7, and my knees bump the dash constantly. The only partial fix is to take all of the air out of the air ride seat. You know how comfortable bumping down the road like that is. My last gripe about the chassis is the doors. We're in a cold climate, and cold air leaks through the doors live a sieve. we are completely disappointed with our ambulances on this chassis, and will most likely avoid it altogether in the future.

                        We are due to spec a new ambulance. Where do we go from here? What are other depts doing?

                        Thanks for the discussion!

                        Chuck

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                        • #13
                          PMchuck : there are a lot of us in the same place as your in. We had been planning to order a new type 3 next year and weren't looking to go to the medium duty chassis, which as you said ride and handle like small dump trucks. I don't see them going backwards to putting Gas engines in ambulance service, plus the KKK standards would have to be re-written to allow them. I guess we will have to look at type 1 chassis with a full size box.

                          On another track does anyone run a 4 wheel drive type 1 on a F-450 chassis?

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                          • #14
                            We run Type I on an F450 super duty, but only two wheel drive. We have four of them from Road Rescue, now all reserves. We recently bought the three 4500s.

                            In regards to the Road Rescue Type I's on the F450 chassis, I can't say enough about them. We had some tranny issues and air ride issues in the cold, but other than those things, they were the best ambulances I have worked in in my 15 years in EMS.

                            Chuck

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                            • #15
                              First let me preface my comments by saying a few things. I am a NREMTP and have been involved with EMS/Rescue for over 20 years and Fire longer than that as I grew up across the street from my local VFD. I do ambulance sales part time for 2 different mfgs. My full time EMS job does not use the product I represent. Now that being said - Islandfire please do not take offense but you can use the G 3500 (cutaway) for ambulances just cannot put a module of any size on it like you stated due to low GVWR. I to feel it will be a step backward to go back to gas as I had the misfourtune of living thru vapor lock/fire issues. I sincerely hope Ford has done the testing they say on the V10's if that is all they are going to offer for us to use. The info I have comes from what I think are folks "in the know" in reference to Fords coming out with the KKK gas V10. But like everything else it is a wait and see if it is true issue. Like I stated before these are my opinions and information not those of my employers and should not be taken as such. Thanks and all stay safe and come home, Neal Craig

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