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  • #16
    We actually wrote our specifications from scratch and with the help of a few good people on these boards. Even when the vendors came back with spec documents, we still used their documents to make changes to ours. We didnt just put our name on a ready made spec. Thats too easy. It went to bid with us not knowing who would win. KME won the bid, 3 others placed bids as well. No bid rigging. We needed to get the rig and all of the equipment for $400,000. We did just that.

    To get what we wanted, we explored alot of options, did alot of research and came up with minimum acceptable dimensions, power, distances etc for almost every major component. For example, we spec'd the motor to have a specific higher torque rating at a lower RPM. This allowed Cummins and Cat engines, depending on the bidder. We used a tape measure, camera and notepad to do alot of photographing, measuring and note taking. We measured many things like the maximum height the hosebed floor could be from the ground relative to our average FF's ability to reach w/o standing on the rig, maximum allowable height of ladders from ground when the rack was lowered, distance between each seat, maximum allowable step heights etc.

    Our final spec document was about 40 pages long.

    We had worked closely with 3 of the 4 vendors who placed bids. We made those guys work, and they were very professional, helpful and dilligent. We also got some great ideas from reps who didnt win the bid, that was very helpful.

    The order of pricing from the bids from highest to lowest was Marion, Elite, Seagrave, KME.

    For information on the engine, see this link.
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=90752

    Thanks to all who helped.
    Last edited by MG3610; 07-10-2007, 09:56 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
      I have seen a new Pierce Dash pumper delivered to a central New Jersey fire department last week at a cost of ( $ 539,000 ) and loaded with many options. What ever happened to getting a basic pumper that will get your firefighters to a fire scene and put out the flames,todays apparatus are getting out of reach for many smaller departments to afford. I can not see spending a " Half Million Dollars " for a engine !....

      You also have to keep in mind what type of apparatus this was, and how it was spec'ed. We just ordered a Pierce Velocity Rescue-Pumper, and the price was over 500K, but its not a straight pumper, it will be utilized for more than just fire supression at times.

      Over 500k for a straight pumper because of silly options and add-ons, I agree, it is exuberant.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by firefightergtp View Post
        You also have to keep in mind what type of apparatus this was, and how it was spec'ed. We just ordered a Pierce Velocity Rescue-Pumper, and the price was over 500K, but its not a straight pumper, it will be utilized for more than just fire supression at times.

        Over 500k for a straight pumper because of silly options and add-ons, I agree, it is exuberant.
        The apparatus was a Pierce Dash 8-man cab rescue-pumper from ( Raritan Twp, N.J. ) sold by Fire & Safety Services !....

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
          The apparatus was a Pierce Dash 8-man cab rescue-pumper from ( Raritan Twp, N.J. ) sold by Fire & Safety Services !....

          I just looked at their website, and I can see exactly why that apparatus was priced so high.........CAFS

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          • #20
            Originally posted by firefightergtp View Post
            I just looked at their website, and I can see exactly why that apparatus was priced so high.........CAFS
            I think that the CAFS option is a extra $ 35,000 or more ?.. Todays fire apparatus prices have gone over the roof, about 13 years ago we purchased this 10 -person cab Seagrave rescue pumper for a cost of $ 285,000. The same pumper would go for $ 500,000 - $ 550,000 in ( 2007 ) !...
            Attached Files
            Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 07-12-2007, 07:08 PM.

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            • #21
              PRices

              My FD is in the process of short listing manufacturers for a rescue pumper after my RFP closed. The cheapest was ALF but they did not come close to our requirements. However in order from cheapest to most expensive that we received were Rosenbauer, Elite, KME, Smeal, Fererra, Ft.Garry ( CDN company ), Dependable ( CDN company ), Seagrave. From lowest to highest the spread was $ 130,000.00.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MurphysFireKC View Post
                Hey eng19ine,

                You ever go to Stella Blue? My cousin Peggy owns it.
                Yes many times to graciously sweep young intoxicated females onto my stretcher. I have met her before. Small world.
                Firefighter II/EMT-Intermediate, ECFR, NC


                "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but who we know the work which the fireman has to do believe that his is noble calling. Our proudest moment is to save lives. Under the impulse of such thoughts, the nobility of the occupation thrills us and stimulates us to deeds of daring, even of supreme sacrifice."
                Chief Edward F. Crocker, FDNY

                Member IACOJ

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                • #23
                  Here is what may be a useful link. LA contract option pricing list from Pierce. Other brands if you search on the LA web site.


                  Pierce
                  http://doa.louisiana.gov/osp/contrac...istoptions.pdf

                  Ferrara

                  http://doa.louisiana.gov/osp/contrac...peroptions.pdf
                  Last edited by neiowa; 07-19-2007, 01:31 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by neiowa View Post
                    Here is what may be a useful link. LA contract option pricing list from Pierce. Other brands if you search on the LA web site.


                    Pierce
                    http://doa.louisiana.gov/osp/contrac...istoptions.pdf

                    Ferrara

                    http://doa.louisiana.gov/osp/contrac...peroptions.pdf
                    Very good information listed on apparatus options, do you have a web site with the base fire apparatus listed ?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
                      Very good information listed on apparatus options, do you have a web site with the base fire apparatus listed ?
                      I plowed around a bit and got to
                      http://doa.louisiana.gov/osp/osp.htm

                      Then searched on fire

                      Some thing useful does come out of LA.

                      HGAC also has contract pricing info listed but I've never seen option pricing there. Though many of the installed prices (for Ferrara at least) look VERY high to. But something to use for a planning tool.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        New truck

                        All - I can send the drawing of the truck that is being built on a commercial chassis - we spec. it out to our needs and is nicely priced. Ask and you will receive.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by neiowa View Post
                          I plowed around a bit and got to
                          http://doa.louisiana.gov/osp/osp.htm

                          Then searched on fire

                          Some thing useful does come out of LA.

                          HGAC also has contract pricing info listed but I've never seen option pricing there. Though many of the installed prices (for Ferrara at least) look VERY high to. But something to use for a planning tool.
                          The state of Pa, has a good web site for apparatus pricing: Costars-13

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
                            The state of Pa, has a good web site for apparatus pricing: Costars-13
                            Thanks found it.

                            http://www.dgs.state.pa.us/costarsre.../costars13.pdf

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Program Apparatus

                              You can still purchase a quality apparatus without spending a ton of money by looking into a " Program truck " like this Ferrara Intruder 2 aerial ladder, the cost of this unit is in the range of $ 424,000 !....
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                On our latest rescue/engine being built now, the only serious competitors where E-One, Ferrara, Crimson and General. General got the rig with the range on pricing being about $50,000.00 total from lowest to highest.

                                It came down to spec for us. Who stuck to ours and who wanted to "change" things and make it "better" because it worked better for them.

                                Our total spec was about 60 pages long with a final price of about $530,000.00.

                                All 4 specs were impressive and the rigs, if built, would have been very impressive.

                                On our previous rescue/quint the only serious contendors were Pierce and E-One. Needless to say Pierce was on the high end of the 2 and was thrown out immediately due to not offering a mid-mount boom device with a standard pumper style hosebed.
                                Stay low and move it in.

                                Be safe.


                                Larry

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