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  • Pricing Hierarchy

    This is being loosely discussed in another thread but since I am on the committee to spec and oversee the build for a new engine, I'm wondering where the main players typically come in when it comes to price. So far we met with Marion, E-One, Seagrave and KME. Marion seems highest, E-One next, still waiting on KME and Seagrave. Any feedback?

  • #2
    depends

    Originally posted by MG3610
    This is being loosely discussed in another thread but since I am on the committee to spec and oversee the build for a new engine, I'm wondering where the main players typically come in when it comes to price. So far we met with Marion, E-One, Seagrave and KME. Marion seems highest, E-One next, still waiting on KME and Seagrave. Any feedback?
    That'll depend on who's spec you put out, and how tightly it is written.

    Comment


    • #3
      On ours, Marion was above Toyne but well below Seagrave. That might be due to our body design, which really is nothing exotic but isn't cookie cutter, either. I don't know where the others would have come in. In the case of Marion, we probably spoke to the same sales person. Seagrave might be the same dealership but a different person. I'm not sure where their territories split.

      Stay safe out there, everyone goes home.

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      • #4
        based on speccing our rescue engine a few years back

        lowest to highest
        Central
        4 guys
        HME
        E-One
        Darley
        Seagrave
        Pierce

        There was about a $120,000 swing from lowest to highest

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        • #5
          We specced a quint last year.

          Of the serious competitors, lowest price to highest:

          E-One
          Smeal
          ALF
          Pierce

          The price range from lowest to highest was, as best as I can remember, about $80-K.

          We also just specced a pumper but there were only two competitors, so no real pricing hierarchy to explain - one was low, one was high!

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          • #6
            Apparatus Price Tags

            The highest priced trucks are ( Pierce , Seagrave , E-One ) Then you have Crimson, Alf , Kme , Hme, And lowest is Rosenbauer!.. Smeal is somewere in the middle. A custom chassis pumper can start at $ 220,000 - and go up to $ 500,000 !
            Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 12-05-2006, 06:25 PM.

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            • #7
              To make blanket statements like this are terribly hard...

              Rosenbauer (yes, I sell it) can be at the low end of the pricing spectrum, or the high - depending on the body builder you choose and options. If I chase someone else's body spec, I may not always be on the lower end of the spread.

              I've been beat on price by KME, Alexis, ALF, etc. I've been well under E-One with a General body, so it really isn't a given what a brand will be at for pricing. I've seen Pierce swing from low bid on one aerial to almost highest on the next...

              Don't forget - if a builder is slowing down and seeing gaps in production coming up they will lower the cost to their dealer in order to keep folks working. I know this has backfired on some companies. Some companies will also make a statement by slashing a price on one or more bids in an effort to get rigs in a specific area or region. That has also happened locally, before I was even selling rigs.

              Most dealers can change the price of the rigs they sell quite a bit by deciding if they want to make some money on the potential sale to you, or a lot of money. Keep that in mind too.
              Last edited by npfd801; 12-05-2006, 09:03 PM. Reason: spelling...
              "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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              • #8
                Exceptions

                One thing to remember here is just because a manufacturer is low bid does not mean they are close to the Spec.

                I have seen many low bids that where low because they took exception to a lot of different things in the spec.

                When looking at bids you must consider the number of exceptions that the manufacturer is asking for vs bid price!

                If you have a bid that is 50k over everybody else look at the number of exceptions the low bidders are asking for.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Big Bucks !

                  I have seen a new Pierce Dash pumper delivered to a central New Jersey fire department last week at a cost of ( $ 539,000 ) and loaded with many options. What ever happened to getting a basic pumper that will get your firefighters to a fire scene and put out the flames,todays apparatus are getting out of reach for many smaller departments to afford. I can not see spending a " Half Million Dollars " for a engine !....
                  Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 07-07-2007, 10:19 AM.

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                  • #10
                    When we got our truck which sounded to good to be true it was:
                    ALF
                    Pierce
                    E-One

                    If I remember correctly E-One was About 80k diff. Pierce was some what in the ball park though. We decided ALF as I stated before was to good to be true.

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                    • #11
                      You should try Ferrara. They did my department right on a new Pumper/Tanker. Good quality apparatus too.

                      http://www.ferrarafire.com/

                      We also have a pierce engine, and love it. They're kind of pricey though.

                      Can't beat Sutphen's service. The squad at one of my PT dept's is a Sutphen. Great truck, and great service. Still a little pricey.
                      Last edited by eng19ine; 07-06-2007, 09:58 PM.
                      Firefighter II/EMT-Intermediate, ECFR, NC


                      "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but who we know the work which the fireman has to do believe that his is noble calling. Our proudest moment is to save lives. Under the impulse of such thoughts, the nobility of the occupation thrills us and stimulates us to deeds of daring, even of supreme sacrifice."
                      Chief Edward F. Crocker, FDNY

                      Member IACOJ

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey eng19ine,

                        You ever go to Stella Blue? My cousin Peggy owns it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I just finished a project on a new truck we're getting. A 2500 gallon pumper/tanker E-One on a Typhoon chassis. 1500 GPM Hale QMAX, headsets, decent options with price of all new equipment to put on it (right down to every double-female) for around $455,000. Like it was said earlier in the thread, it all boils down to how many exceptions were made in each bid. If you bid the truck out say using Pierce's specs, you will have exceptions from most others. It works that way with any bid. I really don't believe there is one truck that is just outright better than any other truck; whatever works for your department.
                          Assistant Chief
                          Elberta Volunteer Fire Department
                          http://www.elbertafire.com

                          "Find a purpose in life so big, it will challenge every capacity to be at your best."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MG3610 View Post
                            This is being loosely discussed in another thread but since I am on the committee to spec and oversee the build for a new engine, I'm wondering where the main players typically come in when it comes to price. So far we met with Marion, E-One, Seagrave and KME. Marion seems highest, E-One next, still waiting on KME and Seagrave. Any feedback?
                            MG,

                            One of the things that can be done to level the paying field, is to put out a preformance spec.

                            Which means spec out a list of what you want on the apparatus, I.E.:

                            Detroit 60 Series 500+ HP
                            Allison 4000 EVS Transmission
                            Engine Brake
                            2000 GPM Hale Pump.

                            You get the idea. That way no manufacturer is involed in the spec writing, which some time stops other manufacturer's from bidding. It forces the manufacturer's to "sharpen" their pencils right from the git go, because they know they have a good shot at winning the bid.

                            Chief1FF

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chief1FF View Post
                              MG,

                              One of the things that can be done to level the paying field, is to put out a preformance spec.

                              Which means spec out a list of what you want on the apparatus, I.E.:

                              Detroit 60 Series 500+ HP
                              Allison 4000 EVS Transmission
                              Engine Brake
                              2000 GPM Hale Pump.

                              You get the idea. That way no manufacturer is involed in the spec writing, which some time stops other manufacturer's from bidding. It forces the manufacturer's to "sharpen" their pencils right from the git go, because they know they have a good shot at winning the bid.

                              Chief1FF
                              I think that most fire departments in my area of New Jersey " SPEC " there apparatus so only one or two manufactures bid on a truck.Most departments are loyal to a single apparatus dealer or builder so they spec there custom chassis so know other builders will try bidding after they read the specs. Like : 148" cab which only ALF builds, or stainless steel split tilt cab which only Seagrave builds etc !.....
                              Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 07-10-2007, 06:43 PM.

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