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  • Quality? What Quality?

    The more I read about the dismal quality of of the fire apparatus being built today the more I realize the only solution is for Honda or Toyota to start building fire equipment.

  • #2
    well...

    we need a reliable heavy duty chassis--Hino isnt gonna cut it. I don't think Honda makes such a thing, nor do they have a diesel engine yet, though one is coming soon. It was my belief that most fire appartus were powered by diesel not gasoline. gasoline+fire(what these put out)=bad.

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    • #3
      Honda does have a diesel engine, only in europe right now. Neither have anything big enough for powering a fire apparatus.

      BTW, the reason Honda and Toyota are reliable is because of manufacturing consistancy. When they build a model, they make quite a few of that exact model, everyone the exact same in every way.

      In fire apparatus, it is entirely different. almost evey fire Truck is a little different that others. Some are A LOT different, that is why there are many more "bugs" in fire truck.

      If Honda or Toyota did build fire trucks, no one would like it. They would be very reliable but only offer four models.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by group3e11
        The more I read about the dismal quality of of the fire apparatus being built today the more I realize the only solution is for Honda or Toyota to start building fire equipment.
        Are you sure you want Toyota? Read this and reconsider:

        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7887155/

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        • #5
          Just like cars... more "features" equals more things to break. Take some of the older (pick-ups) Fords, Chevy, and GMCs... those things could truly handle all the hard work they were given. You could run them into the ground and they'd STILL keep going... these days they're so concerned with adding new "features" that the trucks just don't hold up like they used to.
          Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

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          • #6
            Reliable

            The most reliable fire truck you can buy are the manufactuers program trucks.
            Limited option higher volume repeatable trucks. But you can't get all the bells and whistles that lead to more failures. I agree with Henry Ford, if it ain't on it, it can't break! Keep it simple!

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            • #7
              I have to dissagree on reliability on GM trucks, I am a GM mechanic and they last forever, maybe the accesory stuff causes problems but the driveline lasts forever. The 5.3 engine out since 99 We have replaced 1 engine that was at 300000 miles, sometimes I feel like the Maytag repair man.

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              • #8
                Sklump,you must live in the golden lining.If it weren't for GM's my shop would be bankrupt. 5.3? Intakes and a ton of them.Or if under mileage drag 'em back to the dealer.This company has had 3 Gm's over it's 30+yr history and as long as I own it will NEVER see another one.Nothing but problems. When I gotta go,I gotta go. T.C.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sklump
                  I have to dissagree on reliability on GM trucks, I am a GM mechanic and they last forever, maybe the accesory stuff causes problems but the driveline lasts forever. The 5.3 engine out since 99 We have replaced 1 engine that was at 300000 miles, sometimes I feel like the Maytag repair man.
                  I have to agree with Sklump. I ran my 1990 5.7 GMC into the ground, 253K on it and the engine was fine. Finnaly put it to rest when I lost the main seal on the tranny in May of 2004.
                  As for Toyota and Honda...stick with the reliable American truck builders. If you want to buy a import fire appartus look at the European manufactures.

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                  • #10
                    The most reliable trucks I ever worked on were built in the 1960's, a Seagrave and a Mack. Hydraulic brakes, "Armstrong" steering, manual transmission....no bells, no whistles. They got you to the fire and could pump forever. Today, for some reason, we need soft seats, air conditioning, AM/FM radios, heated mirrors, power windows and door locks, hydraulic ladder racks, computerized pressure controls, automatic foam proportioners, lights that flash only when the truck is in gear.....WTF? That is why there are so many problems. Too many accessories. Sure, some are for safety. But alot are for convienence, comfort and bragging rights.
                    Last edited by firepiper1; 10-27-2006, 04:07 PM.
                    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firepiper1
                      The most reliable trucks I ever worked on were built in the 1960's, a Seagrave and a Mack. Hydraulic brakes, "Armstrong" steering, manual transmission....no bells, no whistles. They got you to the fire and could pump forever. Today, for some reason, we need soft seats, air conditioning, AM/FM radios, heated mirrors, power windows and door locks, hydraulic ladder racks, computerized pressure controls, automatic foam proportioners, lights that flash only when the truck is in gear.....WTF? That is why there are so many problems. Too many accessories. Sure, some are for safety. But alot are for convienence, comfort and bragging rights.
                      1970 - 1990 Mack CF one of the best fire apparatus ever built !....

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII
                        1970 - 1990 Mack CF one of the best fire apparatus ever built !....
                        Had a 1971 Mack CF Aerialscope here...........sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Mack made a great rig.
                        Last edited by firepiper1; 10-28-2006, 12:38 PM.
                        I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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                        • #13
                          Quality

                          My most favorite apparatus over the years was a 1976 and 1980 Ford C/Great Eastern pumpers, 1982 Hahn and our present rescue, a 1988 Mack CF ex FDNY engine 24. Nothing like the simple old stuff. A simple sensor goes bad and you are stuck nowadays

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                          • #14
                            Amen to that! I would give anything to go back to an old Mack or Seagrave with the 5 speed crash box and armstrong steering and an open cab with the wipers on the inside and outside. That was a real firetruck. I might be old school, but those trucks ran for ever. Look at history, some of them are still going strong. Simple is the way to go. Enough of all this crap! It is a Firetruck after all!

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                            • #15
                              Whilst we don't have your cab/chassis I will agree that quality is shocking now. We had the legendary International ACCO as our mainstay from the 70's through to the late 80's, what a truck that was, tough and durable.

                              We took the last 6 off the run this year, 27 years service, can't complain about that, and Darley pumps, simple and powerful, no electronic governers, no electronice valves, you pulled the inlet/outlet levers and this directly opened the valves, not hoping that the electronics work!!

                              But apparently we have progress. Its ironic that our bottom of the range brushtrucks are often online more than the whiz bang pumpers. Hmmmmm

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