Crimson Vs. American Lafrance Vs. Darley

[Chief1FF]

Our tower is on the Eagle chassis and we are quite happy with it. But on this engine, we will not require the horsepower upgrade beyond the 425 so it may be sensible to use the Metro with the Eagle look? And I agree on the look of the Eagle!

Skysthelimit: Good to see you're lurking about. We're speccing the Cummins ISL which will really by more HP than anything we've ever owned except the Tower. But I'm interested in hearing any thoughts regarding this, I'm definitely not the motor guy!

RFDACM,

The only problem I have with the CAT and Cummings is the fact that there is a delay in their computers when receiving a request to increase RPM's from an accessory, I.E. Electronic throttle. or a high idle request when operating the aerial. Only the Detroit does not have this delay.

Chief1ff

[RFDACM02]

I spoke with a driver of an ALF Eagle today. His dept just received two new pumpers from Brand E, and he said there is no comparison. The ALF is a Cadillac: it drives, rides, and handles better than their two brand new rigs from another supplier.

This is purely opinionated, but I think the ALF Eagle is one of the best looking cabs out there.

C6

Our tower is on the Eagle chassis and we are quite happy with it. But on this engine, we will not require the horsepower upgrade beyond the 425 so it may be sensible to use the Metro with the Eagle look? And I agree on the look of the Eagle!

Skysthelimit: Good to see you're lurking about. We're speccing the Cummins ISL which will really by more HP than anything we've ever owned except the Tower. But I'm interested in hearing any thoughts regarding this, I'm definitely not the motor guy!

[Command6]

Along the lines of the Liberty vs. Metropolitan vs. Eagle. Has anyone seen the Metropolitan with the "Eagle makeover"? Our dealer is telling us that given the Cummins ISL and Allison 3000 tranny we'd save some bucks buying a Metro with the Eagle look-alike package with no real difference? We've yet to see one for comparision, have you?

I spoke with a driver of an ALF Eagle today. His dept just received two new pumpers from Brand E, and he said there is no comparison. The ALF is a Cadillac: it drives, rides, and handles better than their two brand new rigs from another supplier.

This is purely opinionated, but I think the ALF Eagle is one of the best looking cabs out there.

C6

[Skysthelimit]

RFD You might want to think about HP also for your AOR. Be Safe in Moose Land.

[evtrandy]

As our salesman told us all the cabs are the same just different trim levels.. any in put on this?

The Eagle is the only one that is even close to being mechanic friendly. The Liberty Custom/Metro has a plastic front facia. This facia allows for no access to anything behind it. The facia has to be removed to gain access to any of the wiring that passes through the firewall, and 99% of your wiring problems will be with the firewall connections. The facia is not that difficult to remove, but even when you take the greatest care possible, sometimes the paint will get scratched on the gravel shield, even if you tape rags to the shield where you think the two might make contact.

[toolhog]

engine and transmission

We also have chosen the 400 hp ISL with the allison 3000 transmission, the engine is premissions, but with delays I am not sure how this will play out, if they put the 07 engine in our truck they will have to eat the differance in cost.which is around 7 to 10 grand.

[toolhog]

eagle

Our salesman had some pic's of make over when he came to our meeting. If you go to the ALF site under liberty series i believe there is one there, the front of our truck will look alot like the peotone listed, except we added strobes above the head lights. all in all the peotone grill looks as good as the eagle for less money.

[RFDACM02]

Along the lines of the Liberty vs. Metropolitan vs. Eagle. Has anyone seen the Metropolitan with the "Eagle makeover"? Our dealer is telling us that given the Cummins ISL and Allison 3000 tranny we'd save some bucks buying a Metro with the Eagle look-alike package with no real difference? We've yet to see one for comparision, have you?

[toolhog]

loaction

Were located in northwest ohio, our dealership is Fire sevice inc. And this is true all the cabs are the same execpt for the mid window, and to be honest the other cabs you couldn't see out of that window anyway, It can be install on the liberty if you want for around 1800 dollars, we thought we could use that money for other things, since you can't see out of it.

[SSIaerialmanTIM]

The nucleus of the fire service aerial industry is around in PA because the lineage traces back to the Grove Crane Company. That is where your experienced labor force is still located. LTI and Crimson's family tree includes Grove, as did Aerial Innovation I think.

True Command6, I was coming at it from the angle of (knowing what you said to be true); were I the man who made the descisions – I would do a lot of work trying to keep all faucets and branches of my company close in to better manage them, ease communication, and the cost savings would be more than substantial.

That is why I have always wondered: if there is no need to “spread” the company – I wouldn’t do it without some very important reasons. Just my opinion. TL

[canuck1]

..

As our salesman told us all the cabs are the same just different trim levels.. any in put on this?

Actually - you're correct.

The Liberty Custom, Metropolitan, and Eagle cab "shell" are all identical....the only difference being that the Liberty does not have a window between front and rear doors like the Metro and Eagle.

All three have different qualities (levels) of trim, and different engine/transmission combinations available.

[TNSM01]

C vs. ALF vs. D

First let me clarify that I am in sales but the intent of this response is information. These are my opinions/concerns and do not reflect the brand that I represent. When you purchase a "body" from any manufacturer you are looking for that manufacturer to warrant that body. Even though the Darley/Pro-Poly body is available to all fire apparatus manufcaturers, from a warranty standpoint, it would put us in the middle when/or if a warranty issue would arise. If the unit is man made, which it is, it has a likelihood to have some issues that will have to be handled. If my craftsmen build the body, then should an issue arise, you are dealing with the actual manufacturer of that unit, not simply an assembler. This eliminates the potential finger pointing when an issue arises.

As to the construction, I am not convinced that any body/tank integral unit is ultimately the right way to go. Should you have a bad day with a traditionally built unit, you could wrinkle the body and not damage the tank. While not looking very good, the unit could still be functional. If you damage an integral system, do you damage a tank seam and loose my water carrying capacity? This is strictly a personal concern of mine that has not been satisfied to date and has no bearing on who buillds the integral system.

As far as the weight comments, it is very feasible to haul 2,000 gallons of water on a single rear axle. We do it all the time. (What about a 75' rear monunt single axle aerial?) If the unit is properly designed, a decent percentage of the weight is transferred to the front axle and there is not problem with any overweight condition. However, items such as pump choice, top mount panels, and 2 or 4 door cabs can change the dynamics and make it a better option to move to a minimum tandem axle. Obviously the front axle has to be properly matched as well.

Regardless of who you choose to purchase from, don't get hung up in the hype and sound bites. You have to slow down and look closely, ask questions, and use common sense. Unfortunately there are some sales people that do not go any deeper than the sound bites that they are given. While the sound bites may be appealing, they may be no more than that company's spin and lack the whole story. The challenge is to really do your homework, question everything, and take no statement for granted. You have to verify the information given to you. After all, you are the one who has to live with the unit, not the sales person!!!

[Chief1FF]

As our salesman told us all the cabs are the same just different trim levels.. any in put on this?

Who is your dealer ship???

Or where are you located????

[toolhog]

alf cabs

As our salesman told us all the cabs are the same just different trim levels.. any in put on this?

[Command6]

What is odd about both ALF and Crimson is that the mfg is split between two main locations. Aerials here, pumpers there, HQ over there. I am not saying it doesn't work but someone needs to explain that to me sometime. TL

The nucleus of the fire service aerial industry is around in PA because the lineage traces back to the Grove Crane Company. That is where your experienced labor force is still located.

LTI and Crimson's family tree includes Grove, as did Aerial Innovation I think.