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Crimson Vs. American Lafrance Vs. Darley

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  • #61
    Penalty clause refunds

    I bet most departments option to take the extra equipment upgrades! Am I wrong?

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    • #62
      thats right

      Would give our dept extra money to buy things we couldn't afford. But after thinking about it, maybe if everyone returned money, then maybe a dept that has great needs for a apparatus or equipment could get some money.
      Last edited by toolhog; 10-02-2007, 01:37 PM.

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      • #63
        Delays !

        ALF is not the only company with delays in delivering apparatus , Seagrave Fire Apparatus also had a large backlog of trucks when they opened there new plant on the same grounds. A local fire department here in central New Jersey waited over a year & a half for a 75' Aerialscope Remount/Rechassis from the date ordered to delivery !..
        Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 10-03-2007, 10:35 AM.

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        • #64
          While we're on the discussion of the Liberty Series, here is a custom cab tanker that I delivered earlier this year. I have a nice PDF spec sheet if anyone would like additional information.

          Jeff H.

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          • #65
            TO: 10 House

            Originally posted by 10House View Post
            While we're on the discussion of the Liberty Series, here is a custom cab tanker that I delivered earlier this year. I have a nice PDF spec sheet if anyone would like additional information.

            Jeff H.

            Is the Liberty series custom chassis the same cab & chassis as the ALF Metro !....

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            • #66
              Originally posted by SSIaerialmanTIM View Post
              What is odd about both ALF and Crimson is that the mfg is split between two main locations. Aerials here, pumpers there, HQ over there. I am not saying it doesn't work but someone needs to explain that to me sometime. TL
              The nucleus of the fire service aerial industry is around in PA because the lineage traces back to the Grove Crane Company. That is where your experienced labor force is still located.

              LTI and Crimson's family tree includes Grove, as did Aerial Innovation I think.

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              • #67
                alf cabs

                As our salesman told us all the cabs are the same just different trim levels.. any in put on this?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by toolhog View Post
                  As our salesman told us all the cabs are the same just different trim levels.. any in put on this?



                  Who is your dealer ship???

                  Or where are you located????

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                  • #69
                    C vs. ALF vs. D

                    First let me clarify that I am in sales but the intent of this response is information. These are my opinions/concerns and do not reflect the brand that I represent. When you purchase a "body" from any manufacturer you are looking for that manufacturer to warrant that body. Even though the Darley/Pro-Poly body is available to all fire apparatus manufcaturers, from a warranty standpoint, it would put us in the middle when/or if a warranty issue would arise. If the unit is man made, which it is, it has a likelihood to have some issues that will have to be handled. If my craftsmen build the body, then should an issue arise, you are dealing with the actual manufacturer of that unit, not simply an assembler. This eliminates the potential finger pointing when an issue arises.

                    As to the construction, I am not convinced that any body/tank integral unit is ultimately the right way to go. Should you have a bad day with a traditionally built unit, you could wrinkle the body and not damage the tank. While not looking very good, the unit could still be functional. If you damage an integral system, do you damage a tank seam and loose my water carrying capacity? This is strictly a personal concern of mine that has not been satisfied to date and has no bearing on who buillds the integral system.

                    As far as the weight comments, it is very feasible to haul 2,000 gallons of water on a single rear axle. We do it all the time. (What about a 75' rear monunt single axle aerial?) If the unit is properly designed, a decent percentage of the weight is transferred to the front axle and there is not problem with any overweight condition. However, items such as pump choice, top mount panels, and 2 or 4 door cabs can change the dynamics and make it a better option to move to a minimum tandem axle. Obviously the front axle has to be properly matched as well.

                    Regardless of who you choose to purchase from, don't get hung up in the hype and sound bites. You have to slow down and look closely, ask questions, and use common sense. Unfortunately there are some sales people that do not go any deeper than the sound bites that they are given. While the sound bites may be appealing, they may be no more than that company's spin and lack the whole story. The challenge is to really do your homework, question everything, and take no statement for granted. You have to verify the information given to you. After all, you are the one who has to live with the unit, not the sales person!!!

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                    • #70
                      ..

                      Originally posted by toolhog View Post
                      As our salesman told us all the cabs are the same just different trim levels.. any in put on this?
                      Actually - you're correct.

                      The Liberty Custom, Metropolitan, and Eagle cab "shell" are all identical....the only difference being that the Liberty does not have a window between front and rear doors like the Metro and Eagle.

                      All three have different qualities (levels) of trim, and different engine/transmission combinations available.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Command6 View Post
                        The nucleus of the fire service aerial industry is around in PA because the lineage traces back to the Grove Crane Company. That is where your experienced labor force is still located. LTI and Crimson's family tree includes Grove, as did Aerial Innovation I think.
                        True Command6, I was coming at it from the angle of (knowing what you said to be true); were I the man who made the descisions – I would do a lot of work trying to keep all faucets and branches of my company close in to better manage them, ease communication, and the cost savings would be more than substantial.

                        That is why I have always wondered: if there is no need to “spread” the company – I wouldn’t do it without some very important reasons. Just my opinion. TL

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                        • #72
                          loaction

                          Were located in northwest ohio, our dealership is Fire sevice inc. And this is true all the cabs are the same execpt for the mid window, and to be honest the other cabs you couldn't see out of that window anyway, It can be install on the liberty if you want for around 1800 dollars, we thought we could use that money for other things, since you can't see out of it.

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                          • #73
                            Along the lines of the Liberty vs. Metropolitan vs. Eagle. Has anyone seen the Metropolitan with the "Eagle makeover"? Our dealer is telling us that given the Cummins ISL and Allison 3000 tranny we'd save some bucks buying a Metro with the Eagle look-alike package with no real difference? We've yet to see one for comparision, have you?

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                            • #74
                              eagle

                              Our salesman had some pic's of make over when he came to our meeting. If you go to the ALF site under liberty series i believe there is one there, the front of our truck will look alot like the peotone listed, except we added strobes above the head lights. all in all the peotone grill looks as good as the eagle for less money.
                              Last edited by toolhog; 10-08-2007, 01:14 PM.

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                              • #75
                                engine and transmission

                                We also have chosen the 400 hp ISL with the allison 3000 transmission, the engine is premissions, but with delays I am not sure how this will play out, if they put the 07 engine in our truck they will have to eat the differance in cost.which is around 7 to 10 grand.

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