Crimson Vs. American Lafrance Vs. Darley

[Rescue101]

Oh,you don't talk nice,hehe T.C.

[RFDACM02]

Been there done that, bought the truck! (in my previous dept.) Was a poor choice but the only one that could be afforded. They're certainly quite popular around us, and I suppose given the low call volume they may be holding up alright.

[RAMFIRE42]

Our Dept migth run 40 calls a year. The majority being tanker assist. So I would say this truck will get more miles going to parades than miles from calls.

[RFDACM02]

Please let me clarify, I was referring to the Metalfab line of apparatus not Crimson, ALF or Darley.

[toolhog]

Alf

My dept here ohio has ordered a new ALF 3000 gallon pumper tanker 1250 gpm pump, its on a liberty custom chassis, we also recieved a grant for 265k. we looked at many trucks, HME, SMEAL, e-one, red diamond, and southern fire, ALL were very nice apparatus, but ALF gave us more bang for the buck! The only problem I see with ALF is production problems and delays, the just moved into there new factory and having growing pains. No matter who the builder is they all have had there problems, so pick one the best meets your needs.

[canuck1]

ALF Liberty

The ALF Liberty program offers some good solid features at very reasonable prices. To name a few:

Freightliner / Sterling or ALF Custom Cab
With or without a midship pump
2000 US Gallons of water (single axle) up to 3000 on a tandem
Air operated side dump valves
Whelen Full LED Lighting packages
3/16 Formed Aluminum body
VMUX Mulitplex wiring

The number of options are limited, but if you can stay within the parameters of the "program" - you will get a lot of truck at a great price.

Many of the little things that cost money from most builders (inlcuding ALF) are included in the Liberty program...for a "program" truck, the content is high...for example:

Stainless sill plates on compartments come as standard
Compartments are coated with Zolatone
ROM brand doors are used as standard
VMUX wiring is standard
Even with the cheaper halogen lighting package - half the lights are actually LED
The chassis is well equipped as standard (A/c included, 270 amp alternator, kickplates and lights built into doors, etc etc)

[toolhog]

Thats right

Your right on canuck1, We went custom, there program truck has alot to offer, anyone looking for a new apparatus should look at this program

[firelaw]

don't do ALF

we have owned every type of apparatus created by mankind...most of the companies have gone belly up.... Maxim, pirsch, alf- the early years, 3D, Hahn... the list goes on.... the Maxims, pirsches and Hahn held up the best... with that said.

in 2000 we bought a ALF Metropolitan... (thinking we would have some luck).. the truck should have been yellow...it is terrible.... engineering? not on your life.. small hosebed.. oversized... meet any NFPA requirements.. No.... support from ALF--- non existant.... if it was a car it would have been lemon lawed...

Just the small list:
Hosebed not meeting specs-- no satisfaction nor offer to fix
holes in the roof from the placing the wrong lightbar- fixed
wrong tank- we hope the FD in Texas enjoys it- they had to make a new tank
Corrosion- well is appears to be a standard not an option
Cracking grill- no paint sticks to it so we use red duck tape to cover the fiberglass.

the list grows each day... the excuse.. the truck was made by the old 3D when ALF was closing the plant.....

As a bunch of fools, we even considered buying another one for a split second. then went down to the apparatus floor and laughed... no way

Crimson on the otherhand hasn't been tested in the Boston Area so we didn't go with them.. Darley is non existant up here

so--- 1-2007 Seagrave pumper and a 2007-Seagrave Force Ladder....

my advice-- anything but ALF

[islandfire03]

We've stopped doing business with few fire equipment dealers for similar issues. Such as running to City Councilors when they don't get a bid or bad mouthing other departments for not buying from them.
I had to tell one large companies salesmen to leave our station NOW! After they threatened us with starting a "War" over sole source builders. I told them that if we heard another word about this I would go directly to the State Chief's Association and tell them this is how ***** Co. does business. They left quietly, not to be heard from again.

We're just down the coast a bit from you and I think we have had that same discussion with the SAME vendors. Some of them think they are the only game in town so we have to buy from them. Last time we ordered turnouts for everyone it took seven months for them to finally arrive and then half of the sets were wrong sized by their rep that measured us. The same with truck vendors, promise the sun & moon then try to deliver what they want.It won't fly here.

[RAMFIRE42]

The ALF Liberty program offers some good solid features at very reasonable prices. To name a few:

Freightliner / Sterling or ALF Custom Cab
With or without a midship pump
2000 US Gallons of water (single axle) up to 3000 on a tandem
Air operated side dump valves
Whelen Full LED Lighting packages
3/16 Formed Aluminum body
VMUX Mulitplex wiring

The number of options are limited, but if you can stay within the parameters of the "program" - you will get a lot of truck at a great price.

Many of the little things that cost money from most builders (inlcuding ALF) are included in the Liberty program...for a "program" truck, the content is high...for example:

Stainless sill plates on compartments come as standard
Compartments are coated with Zolatone
ROM brand doors are used as standard
VMUX wiring is standard
Even with the cheaper halogen lighting package - half the lights are actually LED
The chassis is well equipped as standard (A/c included, 270 amp alternator, kickplates and lights built into doors, etc etc)

I have to agree. The liberty is a great value with most options available. We took his one step forward and have our dealership adding additional equipment to our custom cab 2500gal tanker. These items include a rear view camera, onboard generator, rear discharge, additional scene lighting, and a list of others. Even with these additions our cost was great.
I know the factory was backed up after the move. Our truck is going to be almost 5 months late.

[canuck1]

delays

true - many of their trucks are being delivered late.....from what I have heard the reasons for the late deliveries are (in no particular order):

Built and moved into a brand new manufacturing plant.
Designed new internal accounting / purchasing systems.
Re-design of custom cab for EPA07
2006 saw a huge increase in sales (increased backlog)
Restructuring due to new Owners

Basically - they were hit by the perfect storm - when the dust settles, watch out!

The Eagle has landed baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ledebuhr1]

Our local FD bought 2 Crimson custom pumpers in 2005 for $293k each. One is being replaced soon by Crimson because of a lot of "issues". Dealer for Crimson said Chichago FD has had the same problem. anyone know if its true?

[toolhog]

delays for us too

Hey ramfire42, when is your delivery date? We were told feb 8 of 08, said it could be sooner if they started up there other paint booth and add another shift, we place our order in nov of 06.

[RFDACM02]

Of you guys with dealy issues, how many had penalty clasues? We were convinced the penalty clause just added costs. What a mistake! We had a slight delay on our tower, but in the end it was still less than 12 months between the contract and the delivery. Any new purchases will include a penalty. Otherwise anyone can basically lie about the delivery at bid time and screw you later. Most of us can't can the project 7 months into it and go to another builder on a custom project. If our tower was a stock truck, we would have condisered it based on principle. So far though I'm very happy we got what we did.

[NewJerseyFFII]

Alf

Of you guys with dealy issues, how many had penalty clasues? We were convinced the penalty clause just added costs. What a mistake! We had a slight delay on our tower, but in the end it was still less than 12 months between the contract and the delivery. Any new purchases will include a penalty. Otherwise anyone can basically lie about the delivery at bid time and screw you later. Most of us can't can the project 7 months into it and go to another builder on a custom project. If our tower was a stock truck, we would have condisered it based on principle. So far though I'm very happy we got what we did.

Did the new ALF plant start building any new chassis or complete apparatus yet.I know they are having a grand opening next month with the ribbon cutting !...