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Why big tankers??

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  • RFDACM02
    replied
    Originally posted by mitchkrat View Post

    One depratment has a 5000 gallon semi and it usually is used for one load because it misses up the shuttle and takes up a large amount of realestate.
    We've had similar experiences. When one or two tankers are much larger or smaller they mes up the dump times, fill times and some travel times. Its easy to screw up the rhythm putting these in. The issues can largely be overcome with a well trained water supply officer with some command presence.

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  • Rescue101
    replied
    Mcaldwell,now you have me confused.Since when can't you boost a sprinkler or augment a conventional pump with a Cafs pump? Most of the Cafs units I've seen are a standard fire pump with a compressor driven off the back and a proportioning unit.When the compressor quits or you shut it off,you still have a standard fire pump with a proportioner.30 gal of concentrate at .02-.03 will go a long way on a barn or hay fire.We run big tanks,we always have and our system is set up for them.Don't care for smaller tanks but we don't use them anyway. T.C.

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  • mitchkrat
    replied
    Need same size tankers in a shuttle

    We have a 2000 gallon tanker/tender and a 2500 gallon pumper/tanker/tender. Most of our neighbors are in the 2000-3000 gallon range and shuttle seem to work the best when everyone has similar sized tankers. The smaller tankers (2000 gallon) are mostly on single axles so they are more manuverable but as most departments replace their tankers/tenders/trucks with big tank, they are opting to add side dumps which helps with the tandums.

    One depratment has a 5000 gallon semi and it usually is used for one load because it misses up the shuttle and takes up a large amount of realestate.

    Last couple of working sructure fires we have had in our district - we have had average of 6 tankers in the shuttle and never came close to being low on water. Most of the mutual aid is 9-15 miles away. Average distance to fill site was 6 miles one way.

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  • Bones42
    replied
    We draft from the ocean. That's a pretty big tank.

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  • MemphisE34a
    replied
    Water is free, at least around here.

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  • LVFD301
    replied
    Here in the midwest - we now have a new CAFS engine, with 1250 gallons of water at station 2, along with a 5k tanker. Station 1 has a 1k engine with a 1200 gallon duece and a half.

    I still need a small tanker at station 2. Even if I had no issues with water, I would need it to satisfy ISO.

    It is not our job to only put out fires, and provide education. I also am tasked to reduce my patrons fire insurance rates - via ISO. We run shuttles with the smaller tankers, and use the 5k tankers for nurse cows to keep things topped off.

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  • k1500chevy97
    replied
    Out here in central washington we really dont have the luxury of having a water source near an incident.

    So of course we need to shuttle water in. We have in our district (3) 3500 gallon tenders (if you call for a tanker you will have an aircraft over head dropping the red stuff) and (1) 2500 gallon tender for the job in addition to 8 smaller 6x6 tenders ranging from 1100 gallons to 1800 gallons.

    Sometimes we do get lucky and have an irrigation canal or pond to draft from but most the time we don't.
    So we just send our first and second engines to the scene third engine will find a draft spot somewhere within a few miles of the incident and then the tenders will work accordingly.

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  • LCFD1L101
    replied
    Why OH Why

    If you dont have use for a large TENDER (3500 and up) good for you. Out here in the west we do. CAFS sure that would be nice, if this district had the money but we don't so we do without. TANKER drops are rather expensive so if you call for one you had better need it and more importantly have approval. Just my two cents from eastern wa

    Safety Never takes a Holiday.

    Leave a comment:


  • neiowa
    replied
    Originally posted by Battalion356 View Post
    ..... I have seen the 3500 gallon tanker always sit and be used as a drop tank at most fires, including mutual aid fires. ...... but for some unknown reason our department never uses foam much. We even had a "foam" pumper and I can't recall ever seeing it used as anything but a water pumper! ....
    Sounds to me like serious leader planning, supervision, and control problems.

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  • kuntrykid
    replied
    .................
    Last edited by kuntrykid; 09-12-2008, 03:10 PM. Reason: Don't want to be a member of these forums, so I deleted my posts.

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  • carolinablue
    replied
    In the rural areas around here if you have a large mutual aid structure or brush fire and you don't have several tankers with 2000+ gallons of water in route you are quickly going to run out of water. Certain areas have few water points in the form of small ponds spread throughout the district and hydrants are 15-20+ miles away and water shuttling could take several minutes and be covering a distance of several miles between the water point back to the fire. This isn't to much of a problem in my district but one of our mutual aid departments rely totally on small farmer's ponds for water points and at this moment the area is in severe drought and all the non-spring fed ponds have partially or totally dried up so this has greatly reduced the number of available water points and has caused the tankers to go further and further away to the nearest water point at some fires. Thanks to the larger size tankers more of the desperately needed water is brought to the fire at one time. Around here we call the large forest service plane "the bomber" so there is no confusion between the air plane and a ground tanker.

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  • mcaldwell
    replied
    Diggin up the old stuff eh?



    I agree that big tankers have a lot of drawbacks, from licensing of drivers, to mobility, to speed of turnaround, and bridge/terrain limitations. A pair of smaller units can do more work for you if you have the manpower to operate them.


    As for the CAFS arguement, apples to oranges.

    CAFS cannot boost a sprinkler system, it cannot be used effectively in conjunction with conventional pumper streams, and it is limited by the amount of foam concentrate you carry.

    While we are ordering a new engine with it right now, and it is standard on almost all new engines in our region, until the fleets are all swapped out, and the mobile and fixed systems are integrated fully, you still need big water for many applications.

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  • Battalion356
    replied
    Big Tankers/Big dump tanks

    In my limited experience as a firefighter for 21 years, our BIG tanker (3500 gallons) usually sits at the fire and is the drop tank for the smaller and quicker tankers. We have 3 stations and have 1 1500 gallon pumper/tanker, a 2100 gallon tanker, and a 2500 gallon tanker. I have seen the 3500 gallon tanker always sit and be used as a drop tank at most fires, including mutual aid fires. While I would not debate that does not have it's usefullness, especially now since we have a new ladder truck, I will always believe the smaller and quicker tankers are better in water shuttles. They are more manuverable and have less turn around when filling at the hydrant. That being said, you may need more tankers, but we very rarely call for additional mutual aid tankers either, of course that will probably change now with a ladder truck. I really do not know why, but for some unknown reason our department never uses foam much. We even had a "foam" pumper and I can't recall ever seeing it used as anything but a water pumper! Things that make you go hmmm, or DOH.

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  • Rescue101
    replied
    That's easy.Got more sprinklers,need less Cafs,foam or tankers.A drift now and again doesn't hurt anything and sometimes fosters a spinoff. T.C.

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  • pvfdtraining923
    replied
    Sprinklers? Tenders / Tankers? CAFS>?

    Like most reviewed threads on here.... where in the hell did sprinklers have to do with this individuals question???? CAFS or TANKERS.... he musta' left the part about Sprinklers! Miss something everyday!~ Take Care!

    Leave a comment:

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