Metz Aerials

[Quazar]

[FONT=Arial]Looking for factual data on the metz aerials taht are being offered for sale in the US.

Here are some of the questions that I currently have - may come up with more:

1: What is teh load capacity of teh areials - both dry ane when flowing water.
2: Are the aerial devices complaint to NFPA 1904
3: With only a 2 1/2" pipe to the fly mounted standpipe - what is the rated gallonage of the aerial standpipe (500 Gallons)
4: Does anybody have any experience with these aerials? Good / Bad - neutral

Thanks

[Chauffeur6]

4: Does anybody have any experience with these aerials? Good / Bad - neutral

Contact Spring Valley Hook & Ladder up in Rockland County for an answer to this. They've had one since 2002.

http://www.hillhooks.org

[Weruj1]

do a search ............or scroll down to the bottom of the page.

[BoxAlarm187]

The Metz aerials have been discussed here in the past, so as stated, doing a search will probably get you some of the information you're looking for.

Meanwhile, have you visted the Metz USA website? http://www.metz-apparatus.com/

Fire Apparatus Magazine did an in-depth article about Metz aerials about 2 years ago as I recall. Very informative. You might see if you can get a back issue.

[dragonfyre]

Kennett Square Pa has had one for years. I think their chief is a salesman for them. Check out their web site.

[RFDACM02]

[FONT=Arial]Looking for factual data on the metz aerials taht are being offered for sale in the US.

Here are some of the questions that I currently have - may come up with more:

1: What is teh load capacity of teh areials - both dry ane when flowing water.
2: Are the aerial devices complaint to NFPA 1904
3: With only a 2 1/2" pipe to the fly mounted standpipe - what is the rated gallonage of the aerial standpipe (500 Gallons)
4: Does anybody have any experience with these aerials? Good / Bad - neutral

Thanks

Let me first say that I have not worked off the Metz but have had the oppurtunity to play with a few. There are a few things I personally have issues with. First, the width of the aerail is quite narrow and then they add the pre-piped water way to the inside of the device, making it much more difficult to climb in full PPE, nevermind make a rescue of a live victim who's scared sh*tless. The only other issue is the lack of a continuous path to the ground. How can you make multiple rescues and not get the victims of the aerail without moving it?
Does the Metz have applications here in the US? Of course, if I was in a rural setting with lots of small roads and long dirt driveways I'd jump on one immediately. A 100' aerail on a single axle as short as a pumper! If you can stand any larger truck then I personnaly would look elsewhere for one with better rescue capabilities.

[npfd801]

The advantage of the Metz in a rescue situation is the rate of speed with which it can go from from the ground to the window. It could be up and down numerous times before folks could have climbed down the stick on their own...

I agree - it ISN'T your typical American aerial device, but for those departments that are able to adjust to operations with the rig, it does present some unique advantages. With those advantages come things you can't do that some American style rigs can.

[RFDACM02]

The advantage of the Metz in a rescue situation is the rate of speed with which it can go from from the ground to the window. It could be up and down numerous times before folks could have climbed down the stick on their own...

I assume this would be with shopping cart attached as it would be quite dangerous to rotate and retract with civilian on the stick. Of course then you can only fit one civilian and one FF in the cart for the ride down. Like I said, would be great where nothing else could get in ,but if another would fit most of my district (which they will) then I'd look for more rescue capability.

I appreciate that it is an incredible machine with some excellant engineering. Next revision get the waterway out of the climbing path, wider stick, higher rails, and some sort of ladder to the ground or extended turntable to climb down from. Then you'd have a hell of a stick!!!

[Rescue101]

RFD,As someone who has an active interest in the Metz aerial,I can assure you that you CAN take more than one civilian in the bucket(assuming you are running it with one operator) and there are several variations of the waterway.As far as dismounting the ladder,which CAN be used for mass egress as an aerial with the bucket attached,it can be done with reasonable effectiveness once you know how to do it.There ARE some changes coming in 07 in both the ladder and the bucket from what I'm told. Stephan and Tony have been very kind to me over the years in keeping me abreast of upcoming changes and in allowing me to "fly"this wonderful tool at shows and events.It's a tool that takes some getting used to if you're used to American offerings.But one I think you'll see more of them in the future.Carrabasset Vally has one that is well thought out and well built for their specfic needs.Newry recently took delivery as well.So they're here to stay and in a neighborhood near you.Not for everyone but they definately fill a niche. T.C.

[Chauffeur6]

As far as dismounting the ladder,which CAN be used for mass egress as an aerial with the bucket attached,it can be done with reasonable effectiveness once you know how to do it.

Knowing what I do about the truck (having been around our neighbor's countless times), I'm curious just how you could possibly get anyone from the ladder to the ground with any hint of efficiency, much less speed or safety. It's hard enough for a firefighter to get off the butt end of it when it's deployed off to the side, nevermind civilians who are panicking. I mean, looking at the photo below, the only way I see it happening are either you put a ground ladder up at the end of it or you design and deploy some sort of airplane-like emergency slide shoot. Neither solution obviously very practical or effective.

PS - You'd be lucky to fit two skinny civilians in that bucket along with a firefighter.

[Rescue101]

Chauffer,In conversation with Tony and Stephan on this very subject(as it was one of OUR primary concerns)the answer to your query is this.Standard ladder egress to the point on the ladder where it says Hill Hooks,then step out on to the platform(just above the lettering)then to the truck body then to the ground.I tried it,it's not bad.With a civilian? I'm not sure how well that would work but it doesn't work particularly well with a "standard" stick either.That's the "factory"explanation and I'm sticking to it.And NO,I'm not obsessed with that "free air"ride at the bottom of the stick.We asked if they could build a little "ring" at the bottom of the ladder so you would have a walkway regardless of ladder position.The response was "Why".In dealing with civilians with this particular device it is probably more efficient to use the bucket and "fly" them down.That group from the "Hill"is quite a crew.They're a lot of fun to work with and a great group of guys. T.C.

[Quazar]

Still No Answers to questions

When I first posted this topic , I asked three very specific questions. So far all I've seen are "opinions" both from those who like the truck and from those who don't. As we all know - eveybody has an opinion - I just want the Facts - please. So - for those current users and those who like their trucks , please look in your owners manuals and answer my questions - they are :

1. Is apparatus 100% NFPA 1904 compliant ?
2. What is the tip load, both dry and flowing water ?
3. What is the flow through the standpipe with the 2 1/2" piping?

Thanks !

[Chauffeur6]

Chauffer,In conversation with Tony and Stephan on this very subject(as it was one of OUR primary concerns)the answer to your query is this.Standard ladder egress to the point on the ladder where it says Hill Hooks,then step out on to the platform(just above the lettering)then to the truck body then to the ground.I tried it,it's not bad.With a civilian? I'm not sure how well that would work but it doesn't work particularly well with a "standard" stick either.That's the "factory"explanation and I'm sticking to it.And NO,I'm not obsessed with that "free air"ride at the bottom of the stick.We asked if they could build a little "ring" at the bottom of the ladder so you would have a walkway regardless of ladder position.The response was "Why".In dealing with civilians with this particular device it is probably more efficient to use the bucket and "fly" them down.That group from the "Hill"is quite a crew.They're a lot of fun to work with and a great group of guys. T.C.

Yeah, that's the only way I see being able to get off the ladder too, but if it's at too steep an angle it would still be difficult to climb over the side of the ladder, not to mention find a clear path down off the truck. Maybe they SHOULD design some sort of inflatable escape shoot that stores and deploys from the back of the ladder, right where the Metz logo is.

And yeah, the guys from the Hooks are quite the bunch, I've had the pleasure of knowing and working with many of them for a lot of years and countless fires. Our two depts are joined at the hip more or less.

[Chauffeur6]

When I first posted this topic , I asked three very specific questions. So far all I've seen are "opinions" both from those who like the truck and from those who don't. As we all know - eveybody has an opinion - I just want the Facts - please. So - for those current users and those who like their trucks , please look in your owners manuals and answer my questions - they are :

1. Is apparatus 100% NFPA 1904 compliant ?
2. What is the tip load, both dry and flowing water ?
3. What is the flow through the standpipe with the 2 1/2" piping?

Thanks !

A little testy, are we? First of all, your three questions can and should be answered by either your local Metz dealer or the company themselves. Any claims they make as to the NFPA certification, tip load or flow has to be substantiated by independent testing and certification, so they're not exactly going to lie to you. Secondly, I gave you the website address of a company that has owned and operated one for 4 solid years. Would you like me to call them FOR you?

[tfpd109]

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4: Does anybody have any experience with these aerials? Good / Bad - neutral

Looks like you asked for opinions to me. And it looks like they are being given also. And the points being brought up are good ones, something that should be considered. Now, back to the show