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  • #16
    Originally posted by FFFRED
    I would be suprised as the last I knew we only order fixed cabs. Unless the appratus guys did a complete 180 I can't imagine why they would do that. But FAJ is rarely wrong, we'll just have to wait and see.

    FTM-PTB
    All pumpers , aerials , aerialscopes , are built for the fdny on Seagrave Commander II STEEL FIXED CABS , only there rescues , hazmat ,& decon units are built with a tilt cab -or- Mack MC chassis . This information was given to me from a EVT working at Seagrave sales & service in East Brunswick, N.J. who has been woking on fdny apparatus for over 10 years!....Also I was told that the ceiling & door height of the older fire houses in the city, prevent a tilt cab from tilting for fluid checks on there apparatus. Most fire houses in the city the bay doors are right on the sidewalks with no approns.
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 09-17-2006, 09:27 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by FFFRED
      The HP Engines are POS. OOS frequently. I've heard we are getting more 2000gpm Engines...not sure why though.

      FTM-PTB

      I heard that from now on all of our Engines will be 2000 GPM. I havent confirmed it yet though. I can tell you this though. We have a 2005 Seagrave, and the damn thing sucks. It has a turbo, but is delayed, so it takes a few seconds with the pedal to the floor before it gets going. And the best part is that it wont stay in pumps. It has taken the ECC up to 5 tries to get it into pumps, but of course the shops said there is nothing wrong.
      Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII
        All pumpers , aerials , aerialscopes , are built for the fdny on Seagrave Commander II STEEL FIXED CABS , only there rescues , hazmat ,& decon units are built with a tilt cab -or- Mack MC chassis . This information was given to me from a EVT working at Seagrave sales & service in East Brunswick, N.J. who has been woking on fdny apparatus for over 10 years!....Also I was told that the ceiling & door height of the older fire houses in the city, prevent a tilt cab from tilting for fluid checks on there apparatus. Most fire houses in the city the bay doors are right on the sidewalks with no approns.
        That is why I was questioning the statement from FAJ that would have meant our appratus guys did a complete 180 on what we've always used and why.

        FTM-PTB

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by nyckftbl
          I heard that from now on all of our Engines will be 2000 GPM. I havent confirmed it yet though. I can tell you this though. We have a 2005 Seagrave, and the damn thing sucks. It has a turbo, but is delayed, so it takes a few seconds with the pedal to the floor before it gets going. And the best part is that it wont stay in pumps. It has taken the ECC up to 5 tries to get it into pumps, but of course the shops said there is nothing wrong.

          Why do we need 1000gpm more than we do now. I can't think of any fires around my area where we ran out of Engines to pump more water? How much extra will this cost and why didn't they put that money into making sure these POS rigs won't break down every two weeks?

          FTM-PTB

          Does this mean Engine Co. 9, 72 and all the other Satelite companies will now be 3000 gpm?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by FFFRED
            Why do we need 1000gpm more than we do now. I can't think of any fires around my area where we ran out of Engines to pump more water? How much extra will this cost and why didn't they put that money into making sure these POS rigs won't break down every two weeks?

            FTM-PTB

            Does this mean Engine Co. 9, 72 and all the other Satelite companies will now be 3000 gpm?

            I have no idea why they are considering the change. I'll try to find out tomorrow. but I agree, we dont really need the extra GPMs.
            Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

            Comment


            • #21
              2000 gpm pumps

              I'm gonna stick my neck out and take a couple of guesses. They're based not on what I know about FDNY ops (precious little), but on what I know about the pumps themselves. If you guys say you don't need 2000 gpm, I have no reason to doubt you. But I what I've been able to see, you do move water pretty high up in some of your buildings. I also understand that you rate your pumps somewhat differently (higher) than NFPA/UL. But taking the standard ratings, your two stage pump will do 2000 gpm at 150 psi in volume. So in pressure mode you'll now be able (theoretically) to move 1000 gpm at 250 psi. That's net pump pressure, of course. Add your incoming pressure, you should be able to do even more. Do your own math to convert it to what you do each day, but it looks to me like you'll be able to move more water farther up your high rise buildings. Don't know if you need it, but it will be available to you.

              Another point - the pumps are the same. Assuming that you are staying with Waterous, you may be upgrading. One pump that I stripped a bunch of parts from in a junk yard ('98 Seagrave, E241, I think) was a CM 1000. They're the same from 750 up to 1250. The newer ones, I suspect, are CMUs. It's a much more robust pump. They can be rated anywhere from 1000 gpm up to 2250. Point is, though, they're the exact same pump. The size of the guzintas and the number of guzoutas (to use the venerable Ted Goldfarb's terminology) and the horsepower driving it makes the difference. So the difference in the price of the basic pump is mininmal. Feedback?

              Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!
              Last edited by chiefengineer11; 09-17-2006, 11:41 AM. Reason: Clarification

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by FFFRED
                That is why I was questioning the statement from FAJ that would have meant our appratus guys did a complete 180 on what we've always used and why.

                FTM-PTB
                So the FDNY would have to change the " specs " from fixed cab to tilt cab if they want " PIERCE " to bid on these 100 pumpers ?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by chiefengineer11
                  But taking the standard ratings, your two stage pump will do 2000 gpm at 150 psi in volume. So in pressure mode you'll now be able (theoretically) to move 1000 gpm at 250 psi.
                  A single stage 2,000gpm pump would be able to do 1,000gpm @ 250psi. Wouldn't the two stage 2,000 be able to move 1,000gpm at 300 psi?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Also I was told that the ceiling & door height of the older fire houses in the city, prevent a tilt cab from tilting for fluid checks on there apparatus.
                    We have tilt cabs and can not "tilt them in quarters. You can still check fluids with the cab down.
                    This space for rent

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BlitzfireSolo
                      A single stage 2,000gpm pump would be able to do 1,000gpm @ 250psi. Wouldn't the two stage 2,000 be able to move 1,000gpm at 300 psi?
                      You would think so. If you could do away with stuff like internal friction loss, probably so. The efficiency of single stage pumps is best when they are working at or close to maximum gpm. The two stage pump, with enough engine ahead of it will do that higher pressure at considerably less pump and engine rpm. Remember that the ratings are at draft at 10' lift (net pump pressure). Add hydrant pressure or relay engine pressure, and you can go above it.

                      Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KyleWickman
                        We have tilt cabs and can not "tilt them in quarters. You can still check fluids with the cab down.

                        Ditto.... There is a little place inside the cab that you can lift a "panel" and the dipsticks and ect. are right there. But is is nice to beable to lift the cab also.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII
                          So the FDNY would have to change the " specs " from fixed cab to tilt cab if they want " PIERCE " to bid on these 100 pumpers ?
                          Pierce used to build fixed cabs. I have to believe that they still have the tooling for them. Gotta wonder if it wouldn't be worth their while to reengineer one to accept 2007 engines. You would think that amortizing the cost over 100 vehicles would make it worthwhile.

                          Stay safe out there, everyone goes home.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by chiefengineer11
                            Pierce used to build fixed cabs. I have to believe that they still have the tooling for them. Gotta wonder if it wouldn't be worth their while to reengineer one to accept 2007 engines. You would think that amortizing the cost over 100 vehicles would make it worthwhile.

                            Stay safe out there, everyone goes home.
                            I think that the Seagrave Fire Apparatus LLC will get the bid for next order of pumpers for the FDNY. Seagrave is having a grand opening of there new plant on SEPT 23,06 this will help them to get new fire apparatus built faster and out the door to fire departments without delay !..
                            Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 03-03-2007, 07:40 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by chiefengineer11
                              I'm gonna stick my neck out and take a couple of guesses. They're based not on what I know about FDNY ops (precious little), but on what I know about the pumps themselves. If you guys say you don't need 2000 gpm, I have no reason to doubt you. But I what I've been able to see, you do move water pretty high up in some of your buildings. I also understand that you rate your pumps somewhat differently (higher) than NFPA/UL. But taking the standard ratings, your two stage pump will do 2000 gpm at 150 psi in volume. So in pressure mode you'll now be able (theoretically) to move 1000 gpm at 250 psi. That's net pump pressure, of course. Add your incoming pressure, you should be able to do even more. Do your own math to convert it to what you do each day, but it looks to me like you'll be able to move more water farther up your high rise buildings. Don't know if you need it, but it will be available to you.

                              Another point - the pumps are the same. Assuming that you are staying with Waterous, you may be upgrading. One pump that I stripped a bunch of parts from in a junk yard ('98 Seagrave, E241, I think) was a CM 1000. They're the same from 750 up to 1250. The newer ones, I suspect, are CMUs. It's a much more robust pump. They can be rated anywhere from 1000 gpm up to 2250. Point is, though, they're the exact same pump. The size of the guzintas and the number of guzoutas (to use the venerable Ted Goldfarb's terminology) and the horsepower driving it makes the difference. So the difference in the price of the basic pump is mininmal. Feedback?

                              Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

                              Interesting theory. You might be correct...we'll try to find out. I do know that for every line in operation off a standpipe we have 1 for 1 pumping into the system.(1 Engine=1 Handline) (very rare more than 2 lines are stretched and very very rare more than one is placed into operation.)

                              FTM-PTB

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by KyleWickman
                                We have tilt cabs and can not "tilt them in quarters. You can still check fluids with the cab down.
                                The purpose isn't really to check the fluids it is so they can do major maintenance and repairs if necesary in quarters. For example fix a broken turbo gasket or whatever. Outside of a few tours in City Island I've never worked in a firehouse here who's doors didn't open up directly on to a sidewalk with people walking on it.

                                Originally posted by NewJerseyFFII
                                So the FDNY would have to change the " specs " from fixed cab to tilt cab if they want " PIERCE " to bid on these 100 pumpers ?
                                As for Pierce...I imagine that if they want to sell us Engines or Ladders they will have to meet OUR spec. If they don't do fixed cabs now...they will do so to win our business because the last I knew our Engine and Ladder spec hasn't changed in that regard.

                                FMT-PTB

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