Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pierce's New Velocity And Impel Chasis

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    contenders

    A previous post by a Pierce rep on this forum stated what a Pierce employee echoed to me personally today : the Contender has taken off like a jet airplane...it has become a very popular seller...the Bradenton plant if it were separated from the Appleton facility would be [we are told ] the 3rd largest producer of apparatus. So, it is reasonable to conclude that very likely such a popular model and one being finished in the Oshkosh Bradenton works which at one time were strictly non-fire apparatus production, will likely continue. Afterall, look at what has transpired: Youngstown, Ohio FD swore on a stack of Bibles that they would NEVER buy Contenders again because of the fiasco they endured with the 2 2002 deliveries that were citrus---yes---lemons--that required countless efforts to debug and much time.

    The chief wrote to Appleton later and voiced his displeasure regarding this fiasco. Well, what happened was that early on the Bradenton staff were new at this and didn't have it all together. So Appleton appeased the chief by extending the warranties by several additional years gratis--not a bad business measure, ehe?

    Later Pierce tried to further woo him with at- cost offers of a new midmount tower 95 Arrow xt saving hundreds of thousands over retail cost; new all aluminum enforcer quint 75 at cost at an unbelievable discount; but nothing doing. The chief wouldn't budge.Months ago I had learned that chief was eyeing 2 new sabers. What a shock to learn today that he is scheduled to take delivery on January 15, 2007 of yet 2 more CONTENDERS! Somebody did one whopper of a sales job knowing how that chief is!
    Last edited by oldestwiseowl; 09-15-2006, 06:46 PM. Reason: typo

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Ladder27
      You guys are kidding, right? Please tell me there aren't really that many of us (firefighters) willing to pass judgement on a rig because of the way it looks. I also happen to think that the current Lance, Dash and Enforcer are much better looking, but we shouldn't be shopping for looks. Functionality and reliability are what we should be concerned with.
      I totally agree with you, but the truth is.....there are a LOT of firefighters that this will make a big difference to. Perhaps not as a rational, intentional decision, but it will still make a difference.

      I, for one, really don't like the looks of the Gladiator Evolution. But when we signed the contract for our new engine last year, the dealer offered us several items that would increase safety and functionality for free, IF we swapped the Classic fascia for the Evolution (don't ask me why). We readily accepted, since the aesthetics weren't important compared to the added benefits.
      Last edited by BlitzfireSolo; 09-15-2006, 06:52 PM. Reason: Typo

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by bobsnyder
        The Impel elevates Pierce from the Quantum, their long-standing entry in the "just plain ugly" category, to the panultimate plane of ugliness, occupied by the likes of the Spartan Evolution (why??) and anything ever made by Sutphen (at least they're consistent in their unspeakable ugliness).

        On the bright side, some of the features on the Velocity, such as the easy access points for routine maintenance, are appealing. The marginally bad news is that I'd never actually voluntarily sign a contract for one...give me the simple, "utilitarian" Arrow XT any day. Less bells and less whistles = less days out of service in the shop. It's really that simple.
        If Pierce drops the Dash & Lance chassis I would think most fire departments will look to purchase a " Arrow XT " over the new " Impel -or- Velocity . The " MIRRORS " on the Velocity we can do without!...
        Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 09-15-2006, 07:57 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          You can continue to order a Dash, Lance, Enforcer or Saber up to the point that Pierce can no longer supply 2006 engines. After that it is the Custom Contender, Impel, Velocity, Arrow and Quantum. The Saber, Enforcer, Dash and Lance will not be available.

          In order to qualify as a 2006 engine the EPA has specified that the crank must be installed in the block before the end of the day on 12/31 or at least that is what I understand.

          As I said in my earlier post the standard door mounted mirrors that we are all familar with are available on the new chassis. But before you close the books on these new ones you should at least try them once.
          Last edited by sven73; 09-15-2006, 08:58 PM. Reason: spelling

          Comment


          • #50
            not the dash plllllease................

            I may be incorrect but it would seem a bad business move to drop a model that is a best seller. Pierce has groomed their Dash-2000 for a very long time as a top -of-the-line choice with the fancy multi-plexing etc. To drop that just seems too drastic. Maybe the Saber will take the hit since the Contender is so popular now and it is also available with the extra window in the jump seat area making it even more of a look alike with the Saber. Just my .02 cents worth.
            Last edited by oldestwiseowl; 09-15-2006, 09:05 PM. Reason: typo

            Comment


            • #51
              Pierce Line

              I was at the factory 3 weeks ago for preconstruction of an Enforcer. My sales rep let slip that Saber is very popular and will survive in Saber and Contender trim, (same cab, less frills) We are due for an engine in 2007 budget year, have to wait annd see. The Pierce website was updated right after the webcast and has info on both new cabs

              Comment


              • #52
                Res343cue- The Arrow has the electrical system you are looking for.
                That's nice. It really is.. BUT..

                Perhaps it should be standard in the industry to offer all cabs with a standard, hard wired electrical system. Screw this Multiplexed, modem integrated, computer driven bologna. Make all the unneeded crap an OPTION, not "standard".

                Fire trucks are supposed to get the job done. I know I don't want a "Dell under the doghouse"....
                Originally posted by ThNozzleMan
                Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

                I A C O J
                FTM-PTB


                Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

                Comment


                • #53
                  yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy????? ??????

                  Originally posted by sven73
                  You can continue to order a Dash, Lance, Enforcer or Saber up to the point that Pierce can no longer supply 2006 engines. After that it is the Custom Contender, Impel, Velocity, Arrow and Quantum. The Saber, Enforcer, Dash and Lance will not be available.

                  In order to qualify as a 2006 engine the EPA has specified that the crank must be installed in the block before the end of the day on 12/31 or at least that is what I understand.

                  As I said in my earlier post the standard door mounted mirrors that we are all familar with are available on the new chassis. But before you close the books on these new ones you should at least try them once.

                  Prey tell...
                  Why do you say that 2 extremely best-selling products are being dumped----------Enforcer and Dash???????

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by oldestwiseowl
                    Prey tell...
                    Why do you say that 2 extremely best-selling products are being dumped----------Enforcer and Dash???????
                    Simple - because they are. I can back Sven up on this. The Lance is going to disappear also.

                    As for the multiplex issue that keeps being debated ... it's here, and it's not going away. Multiplexing is the standard in the automotive and aircraft industries, and has obviously found it's place in the fire apparatus industry also. For the forseeable future, there will be departments that demand hard-wired systems, so (in Pierce's case) the Arrow XT will be there to fill this role, but the multiplexing is going to become the standard within the next few years.
                    Career Fire Captain
                    Volunteer Chief Officer


                    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      quantum is hi end..what will these new ones be?

                      I require some sort of rational explanation other than that's that. Why are 2 very fast-moving money-making products being dumped? What is the reason for this? Not just because. I want some hard facts for this decision. In business it is not a good move to eliminate a time-tested product and replace it with a highly controversial successor item such as these new-fangled outer space mobiles that Pierce has conncocted and imagines will conveniently take over where these former popular models left off. And think of the expense! Whose going to shell out a bundle for some weird contraption ? Don't expect any respectable city department with any history or tradition to uphold to sign for an order of 10 or 20 of these things.

                      FDNY is going to obtain 100 new 2000 gpm 2-stage pumpers over 4 years starting with an order of 30. DO NOT expect them to order 30 of these odd-looking spacecraft.
                      Last edited by oldestwiseowl; 09-16-2006, 02:25 AM. Reason: typo

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Why would you expect FDNY to buy anything but Seagrave anyway? Should the Arrow XT on order for Rescue-1 work out, you might see some other XT's delivered, but I think we all know that Seagrave has the FDNY pumper niche.

                        Back on topic, I think your questions need to be directed the the Pierce corporate folks. Do I know that some of the best-selling chassis are going away? Yes. Do I have the complete inside knowledge to be able to justify why Pierce is making the decisions that they are? No, not at all.

                        I think we can all speculate that a company the size of Pierce (with the backing of Oshkosh) has the money to spend on R&D for a rig that they expect to be accepted (albeit, slowly by a lot of people) and the CEO didn't just walk into his office one morning and decide to stop selling the Lance, Dash, and Enforcer.

                        The Quantum got much the same reaction when it was introduced. However, it's proven itself, and sells quite well now. Otherwise, we wouldn't have 30 of them at work.
                        Career Fire Captain
                        Volunteer Chief Officer


                        Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          quantum hi end---new ones hi also?

                          Originally posted by BoxAlarm187
                          Why would you expect FDNY to buy anything but Seagrave anyway? Should the Arrow XT on order for Rescue-1 work out, you might see some other XT's delivered, but I think we all know that Seagrave has the FDNY pumper niche.

                          Back on topic, I think your questions need to be directed the the Pierce corporate folks. Do I know that some of the best-selling chassis are going away? Yes. Do I have the complete inside knowledge to be able to justify why Pierce is making the decisions that they are? No, not at all.

                          I think we can all speculate that a company the size of Pierce (with the backing of Oshkosh) has the money to spend on R&D for a rig that they expect to be accepted (albeit, slowly by a lot of people) and the CEO didn't just walk into his office one morning and decide to stop selling the Lance, Dash, and Enforcer.

                          The Quantum got much the same reaction when it was introduced. However, it's proven itself, and sells quite well now. Otherwise, we wouldn't have 30 of them at work.
                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Sorry.
                          My inquiry is directed to the rumor source. Until I see it in writing it is a rumor EVEN THO my own source has confirmed the abolition of the Lance which I had speculated prior to FDIC when I became aware of Pierce' new developments. Today my Pierce source could not remember the other model slated for abolition. He says only 2 models are going. So, my questions are aimed at those who allege otherwise. I am unsatisfied with just because.

                          As for CEO's...if you are a regular reader of Google News as I am you will sadly see a steady stream of EX-CEO's week in and week out so...we should not imagine that the Fire Apparatus industry CEO is immune to termination for a bad judgement call. Look at ALF and Kebe. He's gone. Then to Seagrave. For whatever reason, gone again.Then the ALF Charleston brass ALL left at some point and went down to Ocala and out went ALL of the E-one brass. My point. Pierce has taken a measure of risk...speculation. If they dump 2 models...Lance and let's say Saber since Contender is SIMILAR tho NOT identical...ok. But if they trash Enforcer and Dash they are treading in the Vale of Deep Shadow cause I do NOT agree with the assessment that the Quantum is a great seller. It is prohibitively expensive save the most affluent client like Honolulu or the likes of it or some Vollies or Burbs but NOT for general consumption.

                          Similarly, the tradition- laden heartland of America is not going to heartily endorse a moon module Land Rover and abandon its traditional fire apparatus---no way no how....Pierce had better be careful...E-one and others haven't radicalized their models so they are waiting with open arms to receive the disillusioned.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            After sleeping on it a bit, and having them haunt my dreams, I stand by my original assessment: they're fugly. And this from a guy who likes the Quantum and drives a Honda Element.

                            I will also say that I now like them.

                            I don't think they look space aged. I think they look like a bunch of engineers built them to meet a set of constraints / specification. I think that these are probably engineers who shouldn't be allowed to dress themselves. But, it wasn't build for looks.

                            I'd like to see one in Chicago's Black over Red, with BLACKED OUT ANTENNAE (sorry, rear view mirrors). I'd also like to see one with a flat roof - with the opinion that a raised roof makes nearly all fire trucks look misshapen. Ironically, the dash / lance were a few of the ones that looked good with raised roofs.

                            Practical, Safe, Innovative, all good. I suspect that pierce has done a LOT of reliability testing with them - this being one of the traits they're advertising.

                            I wonder where Pierce envisions them in their line up.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Oldest- Without going into alot of detail the decision was made three years ago to develop a new chassis in anticipation of the 2007 engine requirements. Rather then add to an already confusing line of chassis the decision was also made at the same time to pare down the line up to make it easier for both the sales rep to sell and the end user to purchase.

                              The Quantum is considered the top of the line so it is not ging anywhere. For the traditonalists among you the Arrow was kept due to its looks and also because it is hard wired to meet the needs of departments who do not want multi-plexing.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Res343cue
                                Funny, the Dash and Lance are to be replaced by the Velocity. Funny thing is, it looks like a Dash with a Quantam nose job! Looks like a Dash base, with a reworked nose and a new "set in place" interior. Oh, innovative. Woohoo.

                                I dont know if I'm sold by the interior either. Yeah, the seats look nice, and the airbags may be a plus depending on who you are.. but the "storage"... Anyone else watch the video, or notice the photos of the radios down in the "pocket". They dont have antennas on them, and no speaker mics either. Makes me wonder if a speaker mic would fit with it down into the pocket. I know damn well that I don't take my mic off just to charge the radio!

                                I'm not sure I'm sold on all this fancy "Command Zone Advanced Electronics" bull**** either. Why can't they design a new cab, with a properly designed, non computerized, all guts and no glory type electrical system? I don't need a computer screen with "advanced diagnostics" to tell me something's wrong. A warning light will do just fine.

                                Maybe when the time comes, I'll take a look at these new cabs. I'm just not sold yet.
                                ummmmmm they did and called it the pierce arrow xt.. and the command zone it shows them as options of both chassis so I would assume if you dont want it you dont have to order it. While I am a pierce fan I am not crazy about the looks either of both new chassis but Iw asnt about the Quantum when it first came out now I like it I guess its something new and I will probably get use to it in time I definatly dont like he looks of the mirrors but if they turn out to give a better view and are safer to back with more power to them and for the record I think they look like the old Maxim chassis from the 70's with a modern look. They do seem to have alot of room in them but its hard to tell by the pictures I would have to see one up close before considering it.

                                Comment

                                300x600 Ad Unit (In-View)

                                Collapse

                                Upper 300x250

                                Collapse

                                Taboola

                                Collapse

                                Leader

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X